Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
I know that modern American Control needs some better draw/life gain engines, but this counterspell looks sick. Just unfortunate you can't cast it before turn 3.
January 6, 2016 6:55 p.m. Edited.
Chandrian - now the only thing that has to work is put the card into a deck that has a solid match up against the other popular decks. Nullifying Twin is a small prize. Especially since it can get countered by Spell Snare, Dispel, etc.
January 6, 2016 7:06 p.m.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm super sad that Warping Wall also hits both Pili-Pala and Grand Architect
January 6, 2016 7:15 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #5
I can't wait to exile a Cutthroat and shut down aristocrats
January 6, 2016 7:17 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #6
The thing about Overwhelming Denial as a regular counterspell in 1v1 is that when you're playing Serum Visions first, you're essentially playing a Cancel with a slight upside. And Visions isn't even instant-speed.
January 6, 2016 7:45 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #8
Are there any decks left playing Filter lands with a high enough density that Warping Wail could fit in?
January 6, 2016 8:14 p.m.
Or perhaps as a better question: Does the addition of colorless spells make filter lands strong enough to be worth playing over the fastlands/checklands?
January 6, 2016 8:16 p.m.
I'm sorry but I have to ask, who else plans on making an izzet counterburn deck with this series? The fact that monastery and stormchaser mage will be in the same standard with all these counterspells like Mindswipe makes me almost too excited.
January 6, 2016 8:24 p.m.
Harashiohorn says... #11
DuTogira Probably not. I mean most decks still have a gameplan that relies extensively on colored mana, and there just aren't many slots left after Fetch-Shocks-Basics, certainly not enough to basically splash an addition color in most decks. As I said before though, decks like U-Tron are about to get a lot scarier.
January 6, 2016 8:26 p.m.
CanadianShinobi says... #12
I'm not actually excited for Overwhelming Denial. It's still a 3 mana counterspell. At best. Sure, it can't be countered but.... meh. It doesn't excite me. If anything it just makes me even sadder.
January 6, 2016 8:37 p.m.
CanadianShinobi imagine UBx Eldrazi. You counter someone's creature/spell etc, they can't stop you from doing so, and then it gets exiled. You follow it up next turn with a Wasteland Strangler.
January 6, 2016 8:43 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #14
That hedron crawler absolutely should have been a 1/1, or even a 0/2, in my mind; it is simply too weak as it is, currently.
Can someone please remind me of why WOtC has not printed any mana-generating creatures with a converted mana cost of 1 in recent sets? Given that they rarely ever have haste, I do not believe that they would be too powerful for the current standard environment.
January 6, 2016 9:02 p.m.
Birds of Paradise and Noble Hierarch disagree with with the "1 CMC mana dorks are okay" argument. Given that the Eldrazi are colorless and already have a large quantity of lands which produce more mana than any colored lands have ever been allowed too... and you might get something that borders Tron's power level in standard with a mana dork that cheap. I think WotC are just playing it safe.
January 6, 2016 9:05 p.m. Edited.
Both of those cards see modern and legacy play in more aggressive lists. A 1 CMC mana dork is almost as powerful as being able to play two lands on turn one. Sometimes it is even more powerful in the right decks (like infect in legacy, where Noble Hierarch provides a passive buff to attacking infect creatures). If our little hedron crawler were costed at 1 mana, you could see 
or even 
CMC eldrazi creatures as early as turn two in standard. That would be very difficult to overcome, as standard does not typically have potent enough removal spells to deal with that kind of power that early in the game.
January 6, 2016 9:09 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #18
DuTogira, I understand that, but I still hope to see such creatures in sets that are not currently in standard, such as Duel Decks, Commander, or Modern Masters.
January 6, 2016 9:10 p.m.
Example:
T1: Eldrazi Temple + Hedron Crawler
T2: Eldrazi Temple, tap out, play Reality Smasher (5 mana 5/5 with trample, haste, and if it becomes the target of a spell or ability your opponent controls, counter it unless that player discards a card).
That would be game breaking.
January 6, 2016 9:11 p.m.
ah ok, my apologies then. I thought you were asking why WotC refused to print mana dorks in standard blocks.
January 6, 2016 9:12 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #21
Hate to be a buzz kill, but Warping Wall will likely see 0 modern play. Compare it to Dimir Charm. Dimir Charm's kill hits most things that Warping Wall can exile, but also hits Goblin Guide, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Insectile Aberration, and quite a few other relevant creatures (in modern). Exile is nice, but ultimately hitting more cards is relevant.
The counter mode is identical.
The third mode is where it differs. Wall makes a scion, which is okay I guess, but not great. 2 mana for a 1/1 with an upside doesn't exactly make me jump for joy. It does help you ramp, which is notable. Dimir Charm is card disadvantage, but it can fateseal the opponent, set up a Delver flip, or delve for Tasigur. Also helps you dig for an answer. Not the best ever, but okay.
So my assessment? Warping Wall is about on par in power level with Dimir Charm, maybe a little higher, but they're definitely comparable. Because of that, I'm very skeptical that it will ever see modern play. Tron and Affinity are the only decks that could play it. It's very unplayable in Tron and not very exciting in Affinity because it just doesn't do much to help either deck's game plan. And splashing 
in any other deck seems downright foolish because it's not like Warping Wall is even close to on par with modern cards anyway.
January 6, 2016 9:14 p.m. Edited.
MaRo has stated somewhere that R&D feels that 1 drop manadorks are a bit too powerful for standard. Make of that what you will.
January 6, 2016 9:14 p.m.
Yeah but it's not like Elvish Mystic is broken. What they should make is a 1 mana wastes mana dork that can only be tapped for an eldrazi spell only.
January 6, 2016 9:16 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd actually... that's a pretty good analysis of the wail. I'm not sure it will even see modern play now. I guess it's more "Splashable" than Dimir Charm but that isn't enough to redeem it really.
I don't know what it is about charms, but they have an annoying habit of making my ability to analyze their usefulness go straight out the window.
January 6, 2016 9:19 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #25
I <3 Warping Wail! Also quick question, is the Mono-black eldrazi deck that I see people mentioning Modern or Standard?
January 6, 2016 9:32 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #26
I know right? I used to worship Dimir Charm until one day I looked up and realized how little it had ever done for me. Same for Izzet Charm. I finally grew tired of playing a 2 mana Spell Pierce because that's all I ever used it for and decided to play Remand instead. I'm not sold on Remand yet, but it's better than Izzet Charm for me I think.
I'm not very good about hyping over new cards. I'm too practical when analyzing them, especially because I only play modern, so unless they really stand out to me I just put them under the category of bulk. The biggest thing that I do that I think is unique is that with every card that might have potential, I compare it to a different card that already exists to gauge its power and playability. But then there are a few like Goblin Dark-Dwellers that I completely overhype. I'm still extremely excited for GDD and think it will spawn Grixis Cardigan Sweaters in modern, which is just a pure value deck that recycles every card possible.
Mono-B eldrazi is a modern deck.
January 6, 2016 9:32 p.m. Edited.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #27
Dimir Charm is cursed by colors though. A colorless spell will be ideal for the Bx Eldrazi decks running around. It's not that it's really that much better (I would say they're have close to the same power level), it's just that the Wail has a home in Modern, while the Charm is way overclassed by cards like Remand.
January 6, 2016 9:37 p.m.
Ok, there is one thing that I really need help with- In a X/X/X/Colorless deck (Sultai Eldrazi, in my case), do I run 4x Evolving Wilds, 4x Unknown Shores, 2 of each, or what? Really stuck on this, would appreciate some help :D I know that Evolving Wilds can fetch me all of my 3 color basics + wastes, but is tapping 2 lands to get one coloured mana out of Unknown Shores worse, even though it can give me both colorless and colored?
January 6, 2016 11:39 p.m.
In a four color deck like that, you will want cards like Sunken Ruins, Flooded Grove, and Twilight Mire as 3 ofs at most. Probably not more than 2 ofs. Evolving Wilds is just a budget alternative for fetch lands/Ghost Quarter so I would try to run those instead of the wilds. Four colors are hard to support though... and it's difficult at best to give generic advice about how to build the mana base. That will typically require a good bit of playtesting on your part.
January 6, 2016 11:45 p.m.
Wait wait wait those aren't standard legal though? The Expeditions aren't part of Standard!?
January 6, 2016 11:50 p.m.
The real problem I'm having is having to choose between B/G and U/B tempo eldrazi, the debate is Catacomb Sifter vs. Void Grafter vs. Mind Melter.... all work in Sultia together, but that's 3 colors and I can't have more than 1 of those in just a 2 color deck. Halp?
January 6, 2016 11:51 p.m.
My bad, I'm so used to providing feedback for modern I just assumed. No those aren't standard legal. Sorry. I am the wrong guy to ask about standard :P
January 6, 2016 11:53 p.m.
@DuTogira no problem, but thanks for trying to help :D but the color problem remains... geesh, I can't just jam a 5-color Eldrazi deck. I guess it comes down to a Flash blocker or counterspell vs a 3/4 for 3 with scrys, then counters vs aggro?
January 6, 2016 11:58 p.m.
Hang on... turns out there is a creature called Boreal Druid, and re-reading my prior post, using Eye of Ugin and/or Eldrazi Temple... I'm getting scared of a new eldrazi aggro deck in modern. Something like Thought-Knot Seer on T2 is terrifying!
January 7, 2016 12:13 a.m.
XD Yeah some of the newer Eldrazi are pretty scary, Thought-Knot is already up to about $5 on pre order O_o
January 7, 2016 12:15 a.m.
@ kyuuri117 - Gut Shot and Surgical Extraction say hello to the new 2 drop counter.
I would absolutely main those in Grixis to make sure the opposing player doesn't land a turn 2 Gurmag Angler or Tasigur, the Golden Fang. You end up losing less life or the same, when on the draw, if you surgical and counter rather than just Dismember their threat.
Of course there is also Remand but you won't always draw it sadly. Also if they wait till T3 for Tasigur, the Golden Fang / Gurmag Angler to hold up a counter then the new counter wins versus Remand/Dispel.
Also using Gut Shot is worth it versus something like T1 Glistener Elf so there's that..
January 7, 2016 12:19 a.m.
JonathanSamurai says... #40
Meh. I'm more of a modern player and I haven't seen enough to get excited yet. I built a R/W allies for standard that I honestly hardly play. I'm bored of this block so far.
January 7, 2016 3:13 a.m.
Has anyone mentioned Void Attendant and Eldrazi Displacer for some fun removal now all we need is a reprint of Training Grounds.
January 7, 2016 6:01 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #43
hateindigital- I don't think it works like that. The Displacer's ability will fully resolve before you can do anything with Void Attendant. You can't really activate abilities in the middle of resolving a different ability.
January 7, 2016 6:45 a.m.
Yeah... Eldrazi Displacer won't work that way with any of the 'Process' effects.
It does work with Hallowed Moonlight or Containment Priest, or other such effects.
January 7, 2016 7:33 a.m.
Zada, Hedron Grinder approves this card. :)
And Monastery Mentor likes the idea of creating a token with some general spell, then giving the token Haste and +1/+1, while making an additional token, and getting the chance of drawing another spell.
Play them together, and you can target Zada, make a token, give it haste with a copy, draw 3+ cards, likely play additional spells and get more +1/+1's and tokens.
January 7, 2016 8:08 a.m. Edited.
beakedbard says... #48
Surge/Prowess decks seem like they might become a force to be reckoned with.
kyuuri117 says... #1
It's a good card but it's definitely hard to cast. Neither Affinity nor Lantern Control want the card, as they both have their specific game plans and that card doesn't fit them. And most other decks in modern can't really support a card that requires a colorless to cast. Jund, Junk, Burn, Zoo, Twin... and a bunch of other decks... just can't support more than one colorless card. For Twin, it's Lighthouse. For Junk, it's Township or Vault of the Archangels. Jund, as far as I know, doesn't run any colorless sources as the mana is already hard enough, and Zoo and Burn don't want anything to do with this.
The card, in my opinion, is great. It would be fantastic in a control or midrange deck. I just don't think there are any decks that can actually run the card, besides this new Mono-Black Eldrazi deck.
Speaking of control decks, is anyone besides CanadianShinobi and myself excited for Overwhelming Denial? 4 bolts, 4 paths, 4 Thought Scour's and maybe some Serum Visions should make this very easy to enable as an uncounterable Counterspell.
January 6, 2016 6:54 p.m.