Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
I still don't understand the Nissa hype. It's the same card as Drana.
January 7, 2016 4:59 p.m.
@DarkLaw What? Besides them both utilizing +1/+1 counters in some way, how are they anything alike?
thats like saying Archangel of Thune and Drana, Liberator of Malakir are the same card
January 7, 2016 5:14 p.m.
I feel like I should be more specific.
Nissa starts off at 3 loyalty. She doesn't die to Bolt... Provided you plus, and she could still die to Bolt and an early creature assault. More on that in a moment.
+1: Make a 0/1 plant.
Great job. Nissa is unkillable now.
Really though, this is just there to increase the loyalty. There are going to be precious few scenarios where this is going to do anything. The best thing you can hope to do is chump a Goyf.
-2: Put a +1/+1 counter on all of your creatures.
So this is only good in a deck which produces a lot of small creatures (i.e. token decks). Okay, fair enough, there are a few of those. But how many play green? Besides, you're looking to be casting this around turn 5/6, after you actually have some Lingering Souls tokens. In any case, this seems win-more. There are better anthems, and if your opponent hasn't already answered your tokens, chances are that the added pump won't do anything.
The ultimate will never resolve unless the game is at a complete standstill. You have to wait too many turns. Besides, this isn't exactly the end of the game. It's just a less reliable Sphinx's Revelation.
It isn't quite Gideon, but it may see play in Standard or EDH if nowhere else. There are just way better ways to use 3 mana in other formats.
January 7, 2016 5:23 p.m.
In relation to the Drana comparison, one thing you tend to do in token builds is attack with a lot of creatures. Drana will pump said team when she attacks. They also both cost 1XX, and both are underwhelming. I'd still prefer to run better cards like Gideon if I wanted to play tokens.
January 7, 2016 5:31 p.m.
Nobody ever said its modern playable. But in standard the card will be hell to play against... In abzan and hardened scales and whatnot
January 7, 2016 5:59 p.m.
RedDiomedes says... #8
Sometimes I don't see what others see until later but in the meantime I agree, Id rather have Drana! She flies, she protects herself by not blocking. She gives tokens.
Still I suppose she is different colours. can't do her thing the turn she is played. Only gives tokens to attackers.
Still again as you point out, Gideon is one more Mana and his emblem will effect the rest of the game forever, plus he generates better tokens and can attack as a 5/5. If Nissa and tokens become a popular strategy we have a lot of options still to basically give the entire board -2/-2 (crippling tentacles) -4/-4 (languish) or 3 damage (radiant flames)
January 7, 2016 6:07 p.m.
The big difference between Drana and Nissa is that if you get a +1/+1 counter on all your creatures Nissa leaves behind a planeswalker on 1 loyalty. And a planeswalker is much harder to deal with than a creature. Also, why can't you play Nissa & Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in the same deck? Gideon is much stronger, that's not up for debate, but Nissa will see play. As I previously noted, all 3 mana planeswalkers saw play.
January 7, 2016 6:11 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #10
Drana could be fun in the Abzan +1/+1 counters deck that was set up with Tarkir cards. I imagine she dies before she gets to swing most of the time in that build. Nissa could fit there too I imagine.
January 7, 2016 6:27 p.m.
If you play the standard 4 Gideon, do you even need Nissa? I wouldn't even class Nissa as a 3-drop planeswalker because she does nothing without creatures to back her up (i.e. you usually play her around turn 4 at earliest and usually much later) and doesn't really impact the board when she comes down.
A planeswalker at one loyalty that doesn't protect themself is relatively easy to kill unless you are already winning, at which point they are win-more.
In comparison to other 3cmc walkers, Nissa looks like one of (if not the) worst.
January 7, 2016 6:59 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #12
Nissa is meh to me. Without something like Elvish Mystic to power it out on turn 2 in Standard I doubt it will be able to create meaningful advantage reliably. I think she is playable but not something worth building around.
January 7, 2016 7:19 p.m.
In standart Nissa could see play. Afterall wotc hates player burn now.
January 7, 2016 9:35 p.m.
For me, Nissa is a PW I would not plan on building with. - I will be sure to be aware of her as a possibe thing my opponent can play, but I don't see it being a 'common place' PW. Just some niche/fring play while players test her when she's first released.
January 7, 2016 9:38 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #15
I think that she's more likely to see play in Modern than in Standard. 3 CMC is very solid, and she both immediately protects herself and will provide a game-winning advantage if left unchecked. I believe APPLE01DOJ was having some success with her in Rock?
January 7, 2016 9:42 p.m.
Here's the dealio with Nissa.
1.) Does she protect herself?
YES! While the 0/1 plant token is not threatening, the creatures you should be casting later on in the game should be. This is the same color with access to Woodland Wanderer, Dragonlord Atarka, Deathmist Raptor, and Den Protector. Also, did I mention that she makes the token with a plus ability! Making tokens while gaining loyalty is big game when it comes to planeswalkers. Go look up the others who make tokens as a + ability; I'll wait. Elspeth, Knight-Errant, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Garruk, the Veil-Cursed, Garruk, Primal Hunter, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, and Garruk, Apex Predator all make creatures that protect them immediately. And they are all solid. But Nissa costs 3 mana, which makes her much better than all the above.
2.) Does she impact the board?
Yes! Both her abilities impact the board. Either she makes an 0/1 Plant or she makes all your creatures bigger. Both are powerful options for Green decks right now. She helps your Siege Rhinos attack through your opponent's Siege Rhinos!
3.) Does she win the game, if left unchecked?
Yes. Her ultimate looks unimpressive, but when you're possibly doing the equivalent of casting Sphinx's Revelation for X=5 at least, that will easily put you ahead. Even ahead of your control opponents!
If you think that Nissa won't see play in Standard, and consistent play at that, you are ignoring her power.
January 7, 2016 9:54 p.m.
JonathanSamurai says... #17
Judging from the flavor text for Oath of Chandra, it seems the Planeswalkers traded their freedom for the sake of Zendikar.
January 7, 2016 10:57 p.m.
JonathanSamurai says... #18
I wonder if they would really do that. Vanille and Fang sacrificed themselves to crystal to save the world. Could the Planeswalkers do something similar to preserve Zendikar and trap the Eldrazi?
January 7, 2016 10:59 p.m.
I can't wait until I draw this hand in my Shattergang Brothers deck...who, byw, New Nissa was made for!
Card 1: Copperline Gorge / Blackcleave Cliffs
Card 2: Sol Ring
Card 3: Harrow
Card 4: New Nissa
Card 5: Another land
Card 6: Skullclamp
Card 7: Bitterblossom
That's a turn 2 Nissa leading into 6 mana turn 3 so you can either play Bitterblossom + Skullclmap + activate twice or play commander and put the clamp on him for insurance incase he dies. It's glorious!
January 7, 2016 11:25 p.m.
kengiczar seeing that new nissa is GG1 that is never going to happen
January 7, 2016 11:39 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #24
JonathanSamurai Chandra didn't give up her freedom, she's free to do whatever the heck she wants, she just has a responsibility now. Taking the Oath of the Gatewatch is not limited to Zendikar; rather, it's protecting the whole multiverse from dangerous threats like the Eldrazi.
Now Jace is an interesting character. He has taken the Oath; he has a responsibility to protect the multiverse, does that conflict his responsibilities as The Living Guildpact on Ravinca?
January 8, 2016 8:30 a.m.
AgentGreen I'm kind of hoping we come back to Ravnica once something catastrophic starts brewing there. The guilds need to finally learn to get along without a guildpact :P
January 8, 2016 8:38 a.m.
RedDiomedes says... #26
I have never understood, how does the living guildpact leave the plane of Ravnica? Seems the magic should stop working or something.
I want to visit Chandra's home plane next. A world of Artifacts and where Red mana is outlawed. Sounds awesome
January 8, 2016 8:57 a.m.
Two cards that stand out so far.
Natural State for Amulet of Vigor and a lot of other things.
Tears of Valakut for Pestermite and Delver of Secrets Flip
January 8, 2016 10:55 a.m.
MurderHood says... #29
Tears of Valakut's flavor text makes me wanna cry. "When Kozilek destroyed Sea Gate, distant Valakut could not contain its grief."
January 8, 2016 10:58 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #30
Why is there so much fucking green? Like seriously. Half the non-Eldrazi cards in the set are green. Oh yeah sure, "the fight for Zendikar". Doesn't mean you have to so heavily skew the balance in card distribution.
January 8, 2016 11:02 a.m.
This thing is almost as good as Nature's Claim at high-level EDH. Definitely a new format staple right here.
January 8, 2016 11:04 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #32
To clarify my original statement, I was not aware that MythicSpoiler has yet to update their database with all 184 cards. Wizards' website has all of them, and after a perusal, I retract my statement. It's much more balanced than MS would have you to believe.
January 8, 2016 11:12 a.m.
Femme_Fatale yeaGO how soon until the set is added to the database?
January 8, 2016 11:19 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #35
Just a heads up; Negate is being reprinted.
That's 3 straight blocks this counter comes in
January 8, 2016 11:27 a.m.
January 8, 2016 11:37 a.m.
Jeskai Prowess/Tokens now has Defiant Strike, "Expedite" (Target creature gains Haste, Draw a card.), and "Slip Through Space" (Target creature is unblockable, Draw a card) as 1CMC cantrips with a bonus... all of which can target Zada, Hedron Grinder for the ability to draw cards equal to the number of creatures you control (and all those creatures gain some bonus).
Use Jeskai Ascendancy for additional bonuses and dig, and you're unstoppable.
The deck is going to be ridiculous!
January 8, 2016 11:40 a.m.
AgentGreen - Negate is a solid roleplayer in Standard, so I'd be surprised if we had a Standard without it.
TheDevicer - I wouldn't hold your breath...
Anyways, my favorite commons for Limited are:
( I'm a little sad it's not a Devoid Lightning Strike)
(It's an Eldrazi Rootwalla!)
And a bonus for a card I think will be playable in Modern, maybe replacing Nature's Claim in some decks.
It kills Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, All of Affinity (except Etched Champion), Oblivion Stone, Spellskite, and many other cards.
January 8, 2016 11:43 a.m.
For Standard, someone was asking for a Rampant Growth, well, we kinda got one.
And now we have a Roast for dragons.
I imagine this card will be more relevant than people realize.
January 8, 2016 11:48 a.m.
"Natural State", is good... but I think Nature's Claim is just a bit better as a sideboard card. - Basically just better 'insurance' against unexpected things, and the life is very rarely (but admittedly not never) relevant.
It's going to see quite a bit of play in Standard... Stasis Snare, Silkwrap, possibly Oaths (if 'Super Friends' becomes a thing)
January 8, 2016 11:51 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #42
So after looking at the full spoiled set a couple thoughts come to mind:
1) B/X Eldrazi looks powerful, also black got a ton of interesting removal spells.
2) There seems to be enough unique cards in this set that hopefully standard will see further diversification amongst its higher tier decks
3) I am quite torn between making a C/X Eldrazi build around Smasher, Knot Seer, and Matter Reshaper vs. a token strategy with Gideon, Nissa, and Captain's Claws
4) Omnath, Locus of Rage EDH decks got some powerful additions.
Lastly, can we all just bask in the glory that is this guy:
January 8, 2016 11:55 a.m.
Rayenous - The only deck I can think of where it's clearly Nature's Claim is Infect, since they really don't care about life-gain. The question is "are there other green decks who care about the opponent gaining 4 life?"
January 8, 2016 11:55 a.m.
The fist time someone plays "Natural State" over Nature's Claim and loses to Splinter Twin while holding their "Natural State"... they'll switch back.
January 8, 2016 12:02 p.m.
W and G is getting seriously pumped! So happy right now.
January 8, 2016 12:11 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #47
Cards that stood out from my first glance at the rest of the set are:
Wall of resurgence - 0/6 for 3 that turns a land into a 3/3. Value and good flicker target.
Umara entangler - cheap blue prowess creature with stats to attack. Borderline playable.
Tears of valakut - sweet sideboard card for G/R decks.
Unnatural endurance - this will function much like Titan's Strength
grasp of darkness - solid removal
Devour in flames - seems like an auto include in R/G Landfall. I was hoping for another early landfall creature but the deck got some sweet tools to close in the mid game.
Ruin in their wake - staple ramp card for G/x eldrazi.
Captains claws - card advantage and cheap.
January 8, 2016 12:12 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 - Btw, Grasp of Darkness is a reprint from Scars of Mirrodin :)
January 8, 2016 12:20 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #49
JWiley129 good to know. It'll make them easier to come by early on. Looks like a strong set for uncommon cards.
January 8, 2016 12:25 p.m.
zada decks will be much more viable with the new additions like expedite and slip through space. Wooo!
Kroto says... #1
I think UR/UBx Eldrazi/Devoid will be a thing. You can get a lot of value out of the new devoid creatures and colorless eldrazi.
January 7, 2016 4:52 p.m.