Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
While solid, consider that Reality Smasher doesn't come with a 6 point life swing on ETB. this means it is worse against aggro, as it does not stabilize the board as well, and the protection is not as important in the aggro matchup. it costs one more, which may result in much more damage being dealt by an aggressive deck.
Presuming one resolved Siege Rhino, it was also helpful in the control matchup, as it effectively deals damage, even if it is removed the next turn. Furthermore, the immediate impact of Siege Rhino may be better than the psuedo-hexproof of reality smasher, at least in the control matchup, not only for the aforementioned reasons, but also because control decks likely have cards to spare.
imagine the control matchup if you will:
Siege Rhino resolves, 6 point life swing. regardles of if Siege Rhino is immediately removed, a lightning helix to the dome is no laughing matter, even devoid (please excuse my terrible puns) of the 4/5 trampling body. this is a 2 for 1 against your opponent.
Reality Smasher resolves, and is immidiately removed. your opponent discards a card. this is also a 2 for 1.
HOWEVER, in the first scenario, you have measurably shortened the clock on your opponents, and lengthened theirs on you. in the second scenario, you have not impacted the board state, and they will discard their weakest card/least necessary one. are both scenarios 2 for 1s? absolutely. Is the immidiate impact, uncounterable, and fixed impact of a resolved and removed Siege Rhino better than the far off, situational, and easily remedied advantage of a resolved and removed Reality Smasher? i believe so.
Don't get me wrong, i love Reality Smasher. the haste is useful, and the psuedo-hexproof is certainly interesting. it is also more easily splashable. i just think Siege Rhino is better. And while Reality Smasher's discard could be usefull in long grindy matchups, especially when backed by counterspells, such as in the control mirror, i think that at that point Sphinx of the Final Word is just better. it comes down 2 turns later, but shuts down opposing control decks much more efficiently, while providing the same clock with evasion, and better protection.
TL;DR.
At least in my opinion, no. Siege Rhino is better against aggro because it stabalizes you,shoring up a major weakness of control, and better against control, due to its immidiate impact.
January 12, 2016 8:09 p.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #3
However, with Siege Rhino, you have to be playing those exact colors. Reality Smasher is much more flexible in that it can go into many colors, as long as the deck has a a source of colorless mana.
January 12, 2016 9:38 p.m.
Looking at cosmopolitanism, sure, Reality Smasher is "better" because it can go in more decks. But in Abzan, Siege Rhino is unparalleled.
January 12, 2016 9:56 p.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #5
Well certainly. I don't think anyone is advocating removing Siege Rhino from Abzan in favor of Reality Smasher however the Reality Smasher is far more versatile and is available to far more decks.
January 12, 2016 10:01 p.m.
Well I'm just imagining a perfect abzan draw
Turn 1 warden
Turn 2 level warden or do something else
Turn 3 Anafenza
Turn 4 rhino
Turn 5 reality smasher
Win
January 12, 2016 11:03 p.m.
SorcerersBone says... #7
Is no one going to talk about how Dash creatures, (specifically Lightning Berserker ) pair very well with most of Surge? Yeah sure you could play the 0-drop equipments and that's all fine and dandy, but they only enable Surge once. This is REPEATABLE Surge.
- Fall of the Titans becomes
instead of . Its already playable, now imagine playing a deck with that and Pyromancer's Goggles, sheesh. - Reckless Bushwhacker doesn't change much, but its Surge ability is guaranteed.
- Boulder Salvo gets a cost reduction that makes it playable for budget players
- Pyromancer's Assault is guaranteed to trigger every turn if you have two dash creatures in hand, and even topdecking one wouldn't be so terrible. Same with Jori En, Ruin Diver.
If Surge was a better one-person mechanic (steeper cost reductions, more "second spell matters" cards, better Surgecast abilities, etc) this little discovery would be actually useful. Sadly my Johnny powers make me obsessed over interactions like this, so while it's interesting, its pretty much only me who's going to build a deck like that.
January 13, 2016 1:49 a.m.
Souljacker says... #8
Rhino and Smasher attack the same turn, but Rhino defends a turn earlier which is very important vs Aggro for a midrange/control deck.
January 13, 2016 9:01 a.m.
I think a nice surge enabler is Anticipate and Dig Through Time enabling Overwhelming Denial
January 13, 2016 11:08 a.m.
MurderHood says... #10
@SorcerersBone Fall of the Titans is only XR not XRR, and if you copied it with Pyromancer's Goggles the X of the new Fall would be set at 0.
January 13, 2016 11:25 a.m.
@MurderHood Actually, a copy of a spell has the exact value of x as the original spell, and, if the spell is a modal spell like Warping Wail and Dromoka's Command you have to pick the exact same modes. Pretty sure you get to pick new targets for the copy though
January 13, 2016 11:29 a.m.
http://magiccards.info/query?q=pyromancer%27s+goggles&v=card&s=cname
6/22/2015: If the copied spell is modal (that is, it says Choose one or the like), the copy will have the same mode. You cant choose a different one.6/22/2015: If the copied spell has an X whose value was determined as it was cast, the copy has the same value of X.
January 13, 2016 11:42 a.m.
MurderHood says... #13
Hmm, I was told I couldn't do that when I tried Dualcaster Mageing a like 23 mana Genesis Wave :/ @Guftders
January 13, 2016 12:52 p.m.
EpicFreddi says... #14
Well they told you wrong. If the dual caster said "cast the spell again" it would be true. But the plain copy would be x=23
January 13, 2016 1 p.m.
Btw, on a slightly different note, if you cast a spell for free, without paying it mana cost, like with any cascade card (Shardless Agent for reference) or like with Isochron Scepter, then X will always be zero.
But in the case of copying the spell, x is the same as the copy.
January 13, 2016 1:14 p.m.
MTGGoldfish made a nice article about the mythics. I largely agree with everything.
Kozilek's Return is clearly the best mythic in the set.
Forget Nissa. I'd rather cast Den Protector and get back something like Siege Rhino. 6/10 Nice try, but not enough value. See Ajani, Caller of the Pride.
Chandra is just a mediocre win-con.
All the rest are fairly easy to work out.
January 13, 2016 4:55 p.m.
Yes pls pls drive the price of Nissa down! Now I can use her in budget decks! YES!
January 13, 2016 5:01 p.m.
MurderHood if X=23, you would just mill yourself to death
January 13, 2016 8:34 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #20
I'm going to get a playset of new Chandra. For reasons.
January 13, 2016 9:53 p.m.
please please PLEASE add Kozilek's Return to the card list. I'm dying to add it to my lists <3
January 13, 2016 10:13 p.m.
Oh my, LSV in his recent article thinks that Chandra, Flamecaller is the Strongest card in OGW.
"Now let's get to my vote for the strongest card in Oath of the Gatewatch: Chandra, Flamecaller. While many players will feel uneasy playing a six-mana planeswalker that doesn't protect itself the turn you cast it, the versatility of this card cannot be overlooked. It can clear the board, give you a new hand, and even directly attack the opponent. I believe that the first ability of Chandra is the strongest. Attacking for 6 every turn is no joke, and it's great at killing opposing planeswalkers. I would bet that red control decks like Grixis and blue-red will emerge thanks to this card." - LSV
January 15, 2016 11 a.m.
I think Chandra, Flamecaller is pretty good myself. As I mentioned in ChiefBell's Third Modern Moot article, I feel like she's highly reminiscent of Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Just and not as busted.
January 15, 2016 11:11 a.m.
TMBRLZ - I totally agree, the comparison to Elspeth, Sun's Champion is a good place to start. Sure she's not as good as Elspeth, but she's pretty damn close.
mtgThaen - You're more than welcome to mock a comment like that, however LSV is a well-liked and often-correct pro player. I'd listen to what he has to say before making any final judgments.
January 15, 2016 11:21 a.m.
I just read that article myself JWiley129. Pretty good analysis. I've already noticed people taking advantage of that Eldrazi curve in MODERN on Xmage. Reality Smasher is very annoying.
I really enjoyed his mention of the combo between Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh + Oath of Chandra . And his saying you could deal seven damage was actually an underplay.
Turn 4:
Tap Chandra - 1 DMG total
Cast Atarka's Command mode 2 and 4 - 4 DMG total - Chandra untaps
Tap Chandra - 5 DMG total
Cast Oath of Chandra - 8 DMG total (although three of it on a creature, that removes a blocker) - Chandra untaps
Deal Combat Damage with Chandra - 11 DMG total - Chandra Flips
Acivate Chandra, Roaring Flame's +1 - 13 DMG total
EOT Oath of Chandra triggers - 15 DMG total
That's 15 damage (12 on player) in one turn through three cards. That can win the game right there.
I like it a lot. And I'm not a huge red player.
January 15, 2016 1:59 p.m.
I'm still kind of gawking at the ability to deal 15 damage in Standard on turn 4. That alone is impressive to me.
January 15, 2016 2:01 p.m.
That combo doesn't work b/c Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh Flip has to use her tap ability to flip. So you actually just want to tap Chandra so she can flip after you cast Oath of Chandra.
January 15, 2016 2:16 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #30
I was kind of hoping to revisit my old Standard days and build R/W weenies for OGW. Am I just not seeing something painfully obvious, or is this just not the set to start back on that path?
January 15, 2016 2:22 p.m.
@JWiley129 - There's actually a better play...
Basically do what TMBRLZ stated, but choose options 2 and 3 for Atarka's Command. - Put an extra Mountain into play.
Then you still swing, but for 2 instead of 3.
After combat, cast Wild Slash. - Untap Chandra.
Tap Chandra for 1 damage + flip.
Extra damage from 
makes up for the loss of +1/+1 during attack, and there's an extra 2 damage from Wild Slash.
17 damage total, 3 was to a creature, 14 to player, plus you ramped.
January 15, 2016 2:48 p.m.
Rayenous - That works, but my main point was you needed to use Chandra's ability for her to flip.
January 15, 2016 2:54 p.m.
Yeah I forgot you had to actually use her ability for the damage check to happen. You just cast Oath of Chandra second main if that's possible as well too. It would all be possible essentially.
Especially awesome if you get Rayenous's idea off.
January 15, 2016 2:55 p.m.
so, how do I answer this in the best way possible. Deck Ideas are definitely there, which I'll go into in a sec. but If you are trying to be competitive, its better to just play atarka red with the new Reckless Bushwhacker
But there are definitely ideas to be had here, and you can go many different ways.
One of them is warriors, but that is base white and better paired with black.
Another is "Big Red", a RDW deck that tops off at Thunderbreak Regent and Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker. Now you can try to splash white for Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and maybe an Alesha, Who Smiles at Death that can activate, but the deck might just be fine at mono red
The last one that I want to highlight is in Frank Karsten's article about playing with Stone Haven Outfitter in standard. One of the lists he talked about very early in spoiler season was a RW equipment deck that used all the cheap legendary creatures, Stone Haven Outfitter, and Hero's Blade/Stormrider Rig/ Bone Saw to tie it all together. He actually overlooked the fact that the legend rule can be your card engine with the outfitter, but when I mentioned it in the comments he agreed. There's also Weapons Trainer that may or may not work there. I might not mess around with the deck much, but you should if you're interested
January 15, 2016 3:06 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #36
Yeah, Ashockfan, this is going to be a competitive deck. I'm liking the Equipment idea. I may tinker around with that. Thanks.
January 15, 2016 4:15 p.m.
Mardu equipment might be nice. Especially if you want to make use of Stone Haven Outfitter's second ability.
Bone Splinters and Altar's Reap. Also cards like Collateral Damage. Flaying Tendrils is conceivable in the aggro matchup too. Just give Outfitter a Stormrider Rig or something.
A lot of cheap utility potential through black... and you know... Crackling Doom. Butcher of the Horde to top your curve maybe and utilize Stone Haven Outfitter's second ability?
Ideas.
January 15, 2016 4:28 p.m.
JWiley129- I think j you misunderstood me; I was referencing "The Princess Bride" when Vizzini responds to Montoya's comment. Vizzini mocks him, but Montoya actually said something that turned out to be right. People are going to disagree with LSV; I don't though. I think he's an excellent player, and I usually follow his advice. I was just hoping someone might get the reference and enjoy it, which is why I had it in quotes.
January 15, 2016 5:02 p.m.
that awkward reference fail moment when you have to explain the reference.
January 15, 2016 5:33 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #42
Anyone going to the midnight prerelease? I'm going to a 9:00am one tomorrow morning. Hopefully it'll be all little kids cuz it's in the morning and no serious mtg player is up before noon.
January 15, 2016 8:39 p.m.
Lol wish I'd thought of that...going to a 5pm one tomorrow.
January 15, 2016 8:45 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #44
I'm mainly going because that's the only time my playgroup can go together, so the little kid thing is just an added benefit. It's a pretty competitive store usually, so I don't expect it to be too much different tomorrow, but if it is all 10 year olds... well I hope I stand a chance against them.
January 15, 2016 8:53 p.m.
Is that this week? Dang. Got a 2,000 word paper to write on the effects of social media on a subset of American culture of my choosing. Maybe I'll write it on the effect that social media has had on the hobby and gaming communities so I can write about MTG. Hell I could talk about how people are talking about the prerelease on social media right now. Thanks ToolmasterOfBrainerd, you've given me some inspiration.
Anyways I am excited to see how much this set is going to affect my local EDH players. In particular one of them is playing Kresh the Bloodbraided and using a lot of Eldrazi Scions and I'm sure he'll be happy to throw even more eldrazi in the set. The pr-erelease should really freshing up my LGS and I can't wait to see the effect it has on our commander league.
January 15, 2016 9:26 p.m.
How hard is it to shuffle a 100-card deck? I mean I do 60 all the time but 100? Thats a lot more. Do you divide it into 2 stacks or something? Or do you genetically adapt to get larger hands?
January 15, 2016 10:14 p.m.
You can do mash shuffles with 100 cards, but it takes some time to get used to. I usually do 2 piles and shuffle them then mash shuffle the two piles together and repeat the process 2-3 times.
In regards to ogw cards in standart. I think the 1 mana cantrips will definetly see play and the black 1 mana instant that regenerates in some BR/UB/BG possibly 3rd color splash aggro deck. Get creature value in Bone Splinters, Altar's Reap, Touch of Moonglove or the new regenerate for B. Get insta value in red decks with Impact Tremors, Outpost Siege or Molten Nursery in Eldrazi decks. Get the big pump with green decks. Get evasion, carddraw and counters in blue.
White might also be a good support color, but I dislike the number of playable creatures in white.
January 16, 2016 7:57 a.m.
RedDiomedes says... #48
I am not a hundred percent but I'm pretty sure that regeneration does not work against sacrifice effects
January 16, 2016 8:17 a.m.
Yes, the regen does not prevent creatures dying to sacrifice, but I'm talking more about the value part. Pump + regenerate on the same card is pretty good value.
January 16, 2016 8:47 a.m.
Nightdragon779 says... #50
I'm so hyped for prerelease. Good luck everyone!
Darkmagi1131 says... #1
Auctually in many ways it's even better because unlike Rhino it's easily splash able with the pain lands from Origins!
January 12, 2016 7:41 p.m.