Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
I disagree, I think that the Mystic Gate as well as more of these lands will be printed in the set and as such standard playable.
December 7, 2015 3:15 p.m.
xGhostx, I'm not positive they won't be in the set. I just don't think an expedition Mystic Gate gives us any information one way or the other. They're definitely finishing the manlands, but beyond that is anyone's guess, I think (except I'm fairly certain they won't be printing pain lands...I hope.)
December 7, 2015 3:19 p.m.
I get you. I just find it way to coincidental that they replaced the Colorless with the Waste's symbol.
I cant see Wizards flat out changing Colorless....
December 7, 2015 3:21 p.m.
GreenGhost says... #6
I could see it. In a way by requiring specifically colorless mana for things it opens up a whole new design space. Just think what this could do for artifacts.
December 7, 2015 3:25 p.m.
ScruffySpydr says... #7
I look forward to this set. If the eldrazi are going to be multi-block, that opens up room for expansion on the lore as well as the mechanics. That's not saying I want to see them in every set from this point forward, but it would be different. As for complaints of the power level of BFZ and possibly OGW, I think with Khans/Fates rotating out and new cards coming in, we will see new strategies rise up instead of people trying to make the old archetypes from those sets work.
December 7, 2015 3:36 p.m.
zephramtripp says... #8
I forsee color screw like this:
Get Kozil-wrecked! 
<>
Enchantment
Nonbasic lands are Wastes.
Just to screw with Standard's perfect mana.
December 7, 2015 3:36 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #11
British spell colour with a u. Americans spell it wrong.
:)
December 7, 2015 4:25 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #12
Filter lands are definelty not going to be printed for standard. Theres no point.
December 7, 2015 4:43 p.m.
Elaborate?
Fetches are facing Rotation.... Something will need to replace our current crutch on standard mana fixing shenanigans
December 7, 2015 4:52 p.m.
GoblinBushwacker says... #14
Personally, I would think it more likely that the OG zendikar fetches would be reprinted over the filter lands in oath, as they work a lot better with the tango lands. however I DO NOT think that they will reprint the OG zendikar fetches.
December 7, 2015 4:57 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #15
Or you guys could just use basics and tangos in normal 1-2 color decks in a norma;l standard.
December 7, 2015 4:58 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #17
So what I'm getting from the expedition is that <> = waste mana but also 1 colourless mana.
So past cards which give 1 colourless will also add 1 <>
Maybe?
December 7, 2015 5:11 p.m.
amazingdan says... #18
So, I hate to interrupt this thread, but I need help on something. I'm fairly new to this site, and this is the only way I know I'll get an answer reliably, since this is a very active thread. How do I create a thread like this one?
December 7, 2015 5:18 p.m.
IvoryFrost Some people think thats how it will work, I personally do not. I think that colorless and Waste will stay two separate "Colors" of mana sources. Essentially that Wastes can be used for Colorless, but not vice versa.
amazingdan Right on the home page, click Forums on the nav bar at the top. Then select the appropriate section for the question or thread you want to start. Then on the right hand side there will be a dialog box, start your thread there.
December 7, 2015 5:24 p.m. Edited.
TheNextRedDude says... #20
IvoryFrost <> = 1 in mana form, and must be paid for with 1, which will now be known as <>.
amazingdan click the forum name you want to post a thread on, and type words into the white boxes on the right-hand side.
December 7, 2015 5:25 p.m.
amazingdan says... #21
xGhostx TheNextRedDude Thanks guys! Pretty obvious now that you pointed it out. I won't disrupt the discussion any more.
December 7, 2015 5:28 p.m.
Click 'forums' at the top
Click on the forum you want to post in
On the right hand side is a small area for starting a new thread.
xGhostx - It pretty much can't work like that though because of the spoiler of Mystic Gate. If wastes was distinct from colourless then that land wouldn't work because they'd essentially have changed the land instead of just reprinting it.
December 7, 2015 5:32 p.m.
By the way, there is some question about the validity of the Mystic Gate expedition based on the Collector's Number. So hold your horses there.
December 7, 2015 5:35 p.m.
I think they will reprint filters. It makes sense for the prevailing theory on <>, and why make expeditions for random lands? I get fetches and shocks, because they're the most played in modern. But who plays filters? The tapping for colorless has to mean SOMETHING
December 7, 2015 5:36 p.m.
Filters are played in modern. They are good, expensive, and somewhat rare lands.
December 7, 2015 5:37 p.m.
JWiley129 it isn't confirmed, but it's there for now so we'll speculate until they answer the speculations or deny the validity
December 7, 2015 5:38 p.m.
Ashockfan - Well, I hope you like waiting until January. :)
December 7, 2015 5:40 p.m.
@ChiefBell they're great and I love them, but honestly have never seen them in competetive modern... Maybe in budget lists, but even then not really
December 7, 2015 5:40 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #29
Fetch lands aren't rotating yet and we just got a new dual land, introducing yet another dual would be pointless.
(1) Will forever more be written as <>. All previous cards will be erata'd to include this change.
December 7, 2015 5:40 p.m.
I disagree lol, (This is not going to end lol) I think that they have infact changed the way that Mystic Gate is printed, and I personally think it just makes more sense and is more viable to have Waste's as the 6 "Color"
We have a few glorious months of KTK Fetches left your right, but I mean what about after lol
December 7, 2015 5:47 p.m.
<> is not (1)
Idk who keeps spreading this shit.
Voidmana is the 6th color and MaRo will confirm it in time so just hold your bollocks for the moment.
December 7, 2015 5:53 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #32
Evidence? <> = 1 has evidence, and lots of it. You have none.
December 7, 2015 5:58 p.m.
TheNextRedDude it proves nothing.....
MaRo also confirmed that <>/Wastes/Void whatever you want to call it is a stand alone colorbase... so your statement literally contradicts MaRo....
December 7, 2015 6:19 p.m. Edited.
TheNextRedDude says... #36
xGhostx Where did he say that? Also, if Mystic Gate adds 1, and now it adds <>, <> must equal 1. Otherwise it would be needless functional errata.
December 7, 2015 6:23 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #37
It would be mindless to reprint a land with new abilities. They would just make a new Land with a new name. Mystic gate remains the same.
December 7, 2015 6:27 p.m.
Here's what we know: there's a current card called Mystic Gate that taps for colorless. They'll be printing a card with an identical name that taps for <>.
Here's what I think: If these cards don't do the same thing then there's a problem. I'm not a rules expert, so I'm not sure of the specific language, but don't the rules state you can only have four cards of a given name? If that's the case, then both printings of Mystic Gate should be functionally identical. This leads me to believe that, in fact, <> is the same as 
December 7, 2015 6:32 p.m.
Gimme 10 minutes while I sift through links and my twitter feed to find it....
December 7, 2015 6:33 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #40
What happens after fetches rotate? Well they will reprint a dual land in the set that starts the rotation. We've never seen two dual cycles released in the same block. (Except in RtZ. Having both tango and manlands. A third would be ridiculous. P.s. you can't keep on pretending that there will be a 6th colour and using that as an excuse. )
December 7, 2015 6:34 p.m.
@ Schuesseled I can contemplate it all I want, and continue to battle that its just as legit of a theory as Colorless and <> being the same thing. Your statement in regards to the fetches though is super valid.
@ TheNextRedDude My mistake, it may not have been a post by MaRo... I think this maybe what I had seen.
"Mark Rosewater discussed a while back is that "colorless" and "generic" are actually very different, but represented with the same symbol. What if 'waste mana' is the new way of representing 'colorless mana', to make it so they have different symbols?Or, what if waste mana is 'any color, can only be spent on colorless spells', and these cards specifically need it?"
Which in the end really does not bring us any closer to any conclusion lol. I think the one thing we can all agree on is that MaRo and the rest of the dicks over at WotC are having a great time watching the internet become divided on this topic.
December 7, 2015 6:42 p.m.
http://mythicspoiler.com/ogw/cards/minaanddennwildborn.html
December 7, 2015 7:06 p.m.
TheDuggernaught says... #43
Wastes will be a basic, it just won't have the additional type of forest, plains, ect. So it can be fetched by something like Evolving Wilds, but not Farseek.
December 7, 2015 7:06 p.m.
Can you guys just stop fucking arguing over wastes? Someone's going to be right, someone's going to be wrong, and no one is going to know until there is an official announcement. Just fuck off, all of you, on the fucking wastes.
Now, we've got a new elf. Decently costed, but doesn't trade with rhino. Thoughts?
December 7, 2015 7:10 p.m.
GoblinBushwacker says... #46
kyuuri117, wow man calm down lol. Your right though, this discussion about the use of wastes and there use in the filter lands seems a little off forum topic. I however will be a hypocrite and throw out one definite fact about the wastes. Colorless mana can be used to pay for waste mana. The the changing of one colorless to one waste on Mystic Gate confirms this. Anyone who argues against this is just silly, wizards would not change an old card, the notion is down right dumb. ChiefBell said it much better then I did, when he posted "xGhostx - It pretty much can't work like that though because of the spoiler of Mystic Gate. If wastes was distinct from colourless then that land wouldn't work because they'd essentially have changed the land instead of just reprinting it."
December 7, 2015 7:43 p.m.
I believe wastes will become the new symbol for colorless and the numbered symbols will just be for generic.
The reason for this is lore wise it makes perfect sense. Up until this point in the multi verse the true colorless beings "known" had been locked away. Currently we have 4Ugin and the Titans. However The Eldrazi Titans are a more practical approach since they were sealed in zendikar longer then Ugin was in the Hedron tomb sarkhan built. When they first awoke the only power they had came from the plane. It would make sense they would not regain their true abilities till after they had regenerated. Which would explain the transition form ROE( colored eldrazi spawn) BfZ( Devoid but the colors are still needed) and then now we have oath where the eldrazi are finally back to there non imprisoned state. Ulamog being the smallest would be weaker since he's the runt but Kozilek and Emrakul will be at full power meaning they now cost <> whereas Ulamog still needed generic mana. So therefore there release would be the main catalyst in renewing true colorless mana to the multiverse. It's why Ugin did not want them destroyed but contained. They like him radiated and used colorless unseen mana.
December 7, 2015 7:57 p.m.
Quote from mythic spoiler comment that hopefully clears things up and shuts down the argument for now:
"So we've finally separated "generic mana" and "colourless mana" For those confused:The term "generic mana" is only used in costs and can be paid with coloured or colourless mana."Colourless mana" is used in mana production only
Both currently use the same number-in-circle symbol. Any costs that have a "use only colourless mana" clause, have to be spelt out in the effect text.This different use of the same symbol set is likely what they want to clarify.This symbol would replace the number symbols in mana production to specify "this mana is colourless" as well as specifying that some costs must be paid specifically with colourless mana
So Sol Ring currently says:Sol Ring (1)Artifact T: add (2( to your mana pool.
with this new symbol it would get errata to say: Sol Ring (1)ArtifactT: add (<>)(<>) to your mana pool.
Note the cost does not change, it still costs (1) generic mana, this can be paid with W, U, B, R, G, or <>"
IvoryFrost says... #1
Oh fuck me there goes all my savings.
That expedition...
December 7, 2015 3:07 p.m.