Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
Im with Ashockfan, Mystic Gate (in the next cycle of expeditions) has been spoiled and it has been errataed to have the <> things instead of just 1. Generic mana will remain as a cost that can be paid from any source but <> has to be payed from a colorless source.
December 7, 2015 9:36 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #3
Ok let's make sure we're all clear on this, because a few people have been throwing around that they might reprint the filters in standard.
They will NOT reprint the filters in standard. They are definitely going to finish out the enemy manlands and almost definitely print the enemy 'tangos'. That will be it for the rare duals. They might do all 10 painlands with the <> symbol in a supplemental product (FTV Painlands anyone?). But not in standard.
Many people have also been wondering what we'll do after fetches rotate. If I'm not mistaken, KTK (and the fetches) stay in standard until Shadows Over Innistrad. My speculation is that they will print the enemy fetches in SOI. This way standard players can still play 4 or 5 colors for a bit longer and modern players can get their manabases without having to sell off extraneous internal organs.
December 7, 2015 11 p.m.
I really hope that they don't reprint the enemy fetches in Shadows Over Innistrad. I'm so sick of 3-5 color decks at this point. It's worse than Mono-Black/Mono-Blue Devotion.
December 7, 2015 11:15 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #5
Okay no enemy fetches. But there still won't be filters or pains in BFZ, and there will be manlands and likely enemy 'tangos'.
I hope Oath is where they misplaced all of the good cards from BFZ.
December 7, 2015 11:23 p.m.
Enemy Battle/Tango lands are highly unlikley imo. The mana is already insane in Standard, do you want it to get better? They are finishing up the enemy man-lands, but there just isn't space for 8 rare lands in a small set.
December 7, 2015 11:34 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #7
You know, if they didn't print enemy oathlands, then that would clear up the other 10 expeditions to be the manlands, which would cause me to sell of some organs to get the expedition Creeping Tar Pit. Seriously that thing better be beautiful if they print it. Anyway, as a modern player, I'd be okay with that.
December 7, 2015 11:37 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #8
I think there's room, JWiley129. Zendikar is the "lands matter" plane, so I think design might find it reasonable to have 8 rare lands, even in a small set. Any other block than a Zendikar block, I would agree with you, though.
I mean, look at some other small set oddities. Fate Reforged is one of those small sets that had, what, ten legendary creatures in it? That's quite a few, even by large set standards, right? But it was appropriate for flavor reasons, due to the story that was being told in the set.
December 7, 2015 11:46 p.m.
JakeHarlow - In Worldwake there are 6 rare lands one of which is mythic, and Battle for Zendikar block isn't just "lands matter", they also have to fit Eldrazi. If they want both to be in the set, they can't make 8 rare lands. There literally isn't enough room for 8 rare lands and enough Allies and Eldrazi to make the set be anything other than "Oh look, I opened another rare land."
December 7, 2015 11:52 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #10
I'm not sure that I agree, but you do make a fair point.
December 7, 2015 11:56 p.m.
JakeHarlow - Here's another way to look at it. Worldwake had 145 total cards, with 10 mythics and 35 rares. 5 of those rares were lands. The most recent small set was Fate Reforged, with 180 cards, with 10 mythics and 35 rares. And 10 of the cards in FRF were the KTK gain-lands, so they don't really count either. Oath of the Gatewatch has 184 cards, and it'd be fair to assume that we'll get 10 mythics and 35 rares again. Sam Stoddard, a Magic Developer, already told us one of the changes to small sets, having 10 more commons, which should not drastically effect the number of rares. If we have 8 rare lands, then we'll only have 27 rares left to fill out the set. So if we need to fit Allies, Eldrazi, and unaffiliated cards, that's 9 rares a piece if they are evenly distributed. So we'd have a very similar chance of opening a dual land as a cool Ally, Eldrazi, or neither at rare. I don't think that would be indicative of a good Limited environment and would probably turn off many casual drafters. Sure, opening dual lands is cool b/c you can trade them back to the shop, but it's not exciting. No one goes into a draft going, "Man, I really hope I open a Sunken Hollow!" They want to open Wasteland Strangler, Woodland Wanderer, or Gideon, Ally of Zendikar! Not Lumbering Falls.
TL;DR - After running the numbers, having 8 rare dual lands in a small set would hinder the opportunities the set would normally give. Especially so considering the new draft format is Oath-Oath-Battle.
December 8, 2015 12:17 a.m. Edited.
JakeHarlow says... #12
Ok, that illustrates things better. I do see your point now and I'll have to concede it to you.
December 8, 2015 12:31 a.m.
EddCrawley says... #13
I wonder what are the chances of seeing an Eldrazi Planeswalker in Oath?
December 8, 2015 3:01 a.m.
I'd be pedantic enough to be interested to see if something like Thran Dynamo that got printed fresh would read "add <><><>" which seems a little cluttered or "add three <>, I guess they'd avoid "add 3<>" for getting confused with 
. Just seems like anything more than <><> as with Sol Ring above would be very 'busy'...
December 8, 2015 4:23 a.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #15
EddCrawley 0. Eldrazi cannot be planes walkers for lore reasons.
December 8, 2015 6:12 a.m.
EpicFreddi says... #16
EddCrawley Long story short they live outside of planes so they cant be planeswalker.
December 8, 2015 6:35 a.m.
People are like, I hate Tri-Color, I hate 4 and 5 Color, I hate Mono-Color. Personally, I love that Standard has the ability to play 5 color competitive decks. How long did everyone joke about 5c Chromanticore being a legit thing, Well it is now! (Aside from Chromanticore, but we got Bring to Light so w/e) WoTC actually gave everyone what they wanted versatility in the landbase in standard.
I personally will take Tri, 4c and 5c builds any day of the week over needing to be mono or risky dual color builds to stay competitive.
I guess I'm one of the few that really does not mind the current Standard global meta, I just love the creativeness it brings to deck building, and at the same time competitive scene's are not just polluted with copies of the same 2 decks. Now its like 4 decks! lol
December 8, 2015 6:46 a.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #18
xGhostx I like that too, but I just wish I could make a viable monocolor.
December 8, 2015 7:04 a.m.
Mono-Red and Mono-Black are semi-viable lol I guess Mono-White could be as well....
Mono-Green Eldrazi is actually fairly legit and I think could be competitive if geared right to right meta.
But I get what your saying. Black Devotion Gary was a lot of fun lol
December 8, 2015 7:13 a.m.
@BS-T.
It may seem 'busy', but it's the way that Wizards currently print things.
Geosurge, Soulbright Flamekin, etc.
December 8, 2015 9:40 a.m.
branston567 says... #21
My main question is that if Wastes produces specifically colourless mana would cards like Mana Confluence be able to produce it? I assume not but I'm not sure as the card was made to produce all types of mana.
December 8, 2015 10:30 a.m.
themindxyz says... #22
It would not. Mana Confluence reads "one mana of any color." Even with Wastes being colorless, colorless is still not a color, hence colorless.
December 8, 2015 10:51 a.m.
shepherdofire says... #24
What kind of abilities do you think the new ally creature cards will have? Maybe a red creature that deals 1 damage to all players, or a green one that give hexproof. Not many ideas left that are the usual text on a card that would make sense on ally cards. What are your thoughts fellow mages?
December 8, 2015 12:55 p.m.
I'd like to see a green/ black one that grants all allies unblock able just because I think it'd be sick and make the deck very hard to beat.
December 8, 2015 1:33 p.m.
ScruffySpydr says... #26
Unblockable seems more blue than G/B, maybe U/B.
December 8, 2015 1:42 p.m.
GoblinBushwacker says... #27
Personally, after seeing the allies that bfz produced, I don't have much faith in the ally tribe when it comes to oath. I would love to see some sweet ally cards, just don't have much faith that we will. On the subject of potential ally abilities though, I would LOVE to see a ally with prowess since it is an evergreen ability. Perhaps blue white ally with prowess?
December 8, 2015 2:12 p.m.
I really hope we see an Ally with Flash. Would be pretty awesome alongside Hero of Goma Fada or the RW one that gives Double Strike. I could see it being some sort of ambushing elf type thing.
December 8, 2015 2:57 p.m.
I really hope we actually get a good set. BFZ was a disappointment.
December 8, 2015 3:24 p.m.
Me too! I hate watered down and unplayable cards.. Ive played 7 drafts with people cracking bfz... soooooooo sick of bfz..
It seems like its who can throw more big dumb fatties at their opponent right now..
December 8, 2015 4:30 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #31
I would be so excited for a flash ally. All of my want!
December 8, 2015 5:28 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #32
I would like an ally that rallys tokens, obviously not ally ones (we don't want it to go crazy infinite), as well as an ally that gives flying or unblockable, although since they are very blue abilities I would have no choice but to make my ally deck 5 colour.
December 8, 2015 5:38 p.m.
GreenGhost says... #33
Well if it rallied ally tokens the ability would go infinite ending with a loss on the part of the person playing that ally. Just saying.
December 8, 2015 5:42 p.m.
Umm...Grovetender Druids has a Rally ability that makes a token.
December 8, 2015 5:50 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #35
Sorry, I meant to say free tokens, I don't want to pay for rally effects, I think that's silly. And Green_Ghost yes I know, that's why I said not ally tokens.
December 8, 2015 5:57 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #36
I have a feeling we'll see a standard reprint of Sol Ring using the new <> symbol...
December 8, 2015 6:14 p.m.
Darkmagi1131 says... #39
Auctually a Lotus that sacked for 3x colorless could be cool and I don't think too op
December 8, 2015 6:42 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #40
Uuuh, are you familiar with Vintage shops? And that's a deck that's built around a LAND that taps for that can ONLY be spent on ARTIFACTS. Not a free artifact that gives you 3 mana. It would be stupidly broken.
December 8, 2015 6:54 p.m.
If they wanted to make a colorless lotus for 
it would have to have some drawback like forcing you to sacrifice lands. Check out Lotus Vale or Lotus Petal. Having a drop artifact that taps for right off the bat is to much.
December 8, 2015 7:22 p.m.
pinkhamster says... #42
Why is Painful Truths better than Read the Bones? Just wondering.
December 8, 2015 7:56 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #43
Three cases:
Top-Top with Read: Painful Truths is obviously better here. You get the same two cards plus an additional random one at the cost of one life.
Top-Bottom with Read: Painful Truths gets you the same two cards that Read did, plus the card you bottomed at the cost of one life.
Bottom-Bottom with Read: Painful Truths gives you the two cards you bottomed plus one of the same cards that Read gave you, but loses the extra random card.
Only in situation 3 is Painful Truths not entirely obviously better than Read the Bones. Even then, I'm skeptical that it's actually worse. Would you rather have a random card or two cards that aren't good now but might be later?
Regardless, it doesn't matter whether or not it's better than Read. It's pretty obvious that it is. Drawing 3 cards is effectively twice as much as drawing 2. What matters is whether or not it's playable in competitive decks.
December 8, 2015 8:02 p.m.
Aric_Haldan says... #44
BFZ has seen some play in standard with decks popping up around some of the new mechanics like the Eldrazi decks, Bring to Light decks and the four color decks using converge cards like Woodland Wanderer and Painful Truths. The landfall creatures are being used in some aggressive decks like Atarka Red, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar is used in a lot of deck-builds, Dragonmaster Outcast is played in Jeskai Black,Ob Nixilis Reignited is pretty popular in U/B control decks which also use Ruinous Path and Scatter to the Winds. Aristocrats decks use a lot of BFZ commons, Dispel, Horribly Awry, Stasis Snare and Transgress the Mind all have seen some play.
And even though the allies are still not quite strong enough to build a deck around, we are only at the first set of this plane and the next one is going to be a big one as well, so I am actually expecting some new good ally cards allowing for new synergistic ally decks to be competitive as well, after all Abzan Aggro wasn't that great without Dromoka's Command and Warden of the First Tree either, and this will be much of the same. I personally really liked the mechanics and flavor of this set.
Also about the wastes, I think it would be cool if they build an entire mechanic around it, as they did with the processor and ingest mechanic. otherwise fuck that shit :p
December 8, 2015 8:12 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #45
Aric-Haldan Wastemana is basically the new colorless mana, BTW.
With that said, Wastes clearly have spell-matters associated with them.
December 8, 2015 8:15 p.m.
Aric_Haldan says... #46
TheNextRedDude I actually meant a mechanic to go get them f.e. an enchantment with the effect that says "whenever a land an opponent owns gets exiled by an effect of a colorless spell or the ability of a colorless permanent you control, put that land into it's owners graveyard. Then search your library for a wastes, reveal it and put it onto the battlefield tapped" which would work well with ingest and Crumble to Dust which seems flavorful
December 8, 2015 8:31 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #47
That is unlikely as an actual mechanic, hough it could be reasonable sub theme.
December 8, 2015 8:49 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #49
Here's a interesting theory
Wastes could be token lands. Basically they exist outside the game until certain conditions are met. If a critter deals damage to a player; that player has to exile a land he controls and replace it with Wastes; to represent that the Eldrazi came in and drained one of his lands of that color. He keeps the land but it's pretty much devoid of mana
December 9, 2015 9:36 a.m.
shepherdofire says... #50
Building off of this maybe having a secondary ability to it as such: If all lands your opponent controls are wastes your eldrazi creatures cannot be blocked.
veritas723 says... #1
wastes are probably going to be mana battery lands that flip to wastes when out of counters.
people whine about everything. I like that Wizards is trying new things. I think once khans rotates, and 50 fetches in a deck go by by in standard. might eliminate some of the stupid 4-5 splashy decks.
yeah the cost of cards in BFZ are pathetically low. but flip jace is pathetically high. it makes no sense. Hell even Khans, everything is dirt cheap save fetches and 1 or 2 cards. ...kinda like. BFZ. but...the waaaambulance is on tilt
December 7, 2015 8:29 p.m.