Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
CanadianShinobi says... #2
bennybubbles what makes a set bad, is to some degree, open for debate. However, as you have noted, BFZ has made a very weak impact on Standard. Actually, according to one article I read a few weeks back, it is one of the weakest impacts in recent history.
December 10, 2015 10:32 p.m.
bennybubbles says... #3
I agree. I'm not saying that it's wrong to dislike BFZ, but saying that it is a horrible set because of one thing is like saying that the original trilogy of Star Wars is horrible because the lightsaber battles are bad (A weak analogy I know, but the best I could come up with in a pinch).
December 10, 2015 10:37 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #4
Judging by the lack of BFZ cards on high level play, will OotG make up the lack of punch in the block, or will it remain under powered until rotation starts in April?
December 11, 2015 8:34 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #5
From a personal standpoint I used BFZ as a launchpad back into Magic. Largely ignoring the Khans block.
Does it feel strong against alot of Standard decks; no. Can it get better, absolutely. This is why I'm waiting with bated breath what Oath comes with and how many modifications I have to make to strengthen my deck while still using mechanics like Ingest and process
December 11, 2015 8:38 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #6
Just a heads up; the Kozilek is no longer a leak; WoTC confirmed it's existence. <> is also confirmed as the new mana symbol for colorless and it's not limited to this set. This is the new norm for colorless mana
December 11, 2015 8:54 a.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #7
I hunger for more spoilers with the leaks of Ayli and the Wildborn twins, they make for really interesting build-around cards.
Ayli in Mardu tokens? Abzan? BW aggro?
Are the Wildborns what I want for my Temur aggro list?
and Kozilek? Oh man I wanna figure how what he plays like, because he looks like a control finisher if I've ever seen one. Draw back up to 7 hand becomes fuel for a weird 12/12 Counterbalance
December 11, 2015 9:12 a.m.
bennybubbles says... #8
The Wildborns are going straight in my allies basket.
December 11, 2015 9:16 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #9
Wastes confirmed. Two arts of Waste; the one already seen (confirmed to be Kozilek's corruption) and the other is the dust covered lands we see (from Ulamog's corruption).
Still hoping Devoid is still a thing in Oath
December 11, 2015 10:33 a.m.
@Schuesseled: I know you can have more than 4 of in a deck, and perhaps more importantly more than 1 of in EDH, but it was said in a MaRo article this was disregarded when considering whether a land is strictly better.
I'm not arguing that Wastes are bad, or that they shouldn't be implemented, I'm just saying I don't necessarily agree with the precedent it sets, that lands can freely be better than basics. Whilst, as Rayenous points out, it was likely aimed more at things like Oboro and the original dual-lands, they still are strictly better. Also @Rayenous, I'm not sure what your point is with Sundering Titan, as Wastes aren't hit by it as they don't have a basic land type (unless a new card has come out to show they have, as the firt was just "Basic Land", no subtype).
I guess producing generic mana wouldn't really make sense, though, and they can't feasibly go back and remove the ability of all old lands to stop them producing the (1) (now <>), though, so it's fair enough, but eh, I still don't like having a strictly better than a basic land, even if it is likely the only way the basic land can be introduced.
For reference, here is the MaRo article, where he says that whilst design recognises non-basic is a disadvantage, it is not significant enough to prevent a non-basic being strictly better; http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr65
Not really much point in continuing this though - it's happening, I was just pointing out I find it odd for a design choice, and if people disagree that's fine! :)
December 11, 2015 12:03 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #11
So a lot of us were right <> = 1 colourless it's just a new symbol for it.
December 11, 2015 12:34 p.m.
December 11, 2015 1:21 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #14
BUT IT IAN'T DOUBLE COLOURLESS!!!
Shit pokemon hasn't had a basic coulourless card since...I think base set.
December 11, 2015 1:57 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #15
Oh man you really got us with that SICK JOKE
OMG did...you know???? card games use ...Similar design elements?!?!?!!
It really must be a .....conspiracsm
December 11, 2015 1:59 p.m.
I want a card that spreads "corruption" to non basic mana.
December 11, 2015 4:31 p.m.
RicketyEng says... #18
Thanks greyninja for the video link! It sounds like Oath is going to be chocked full of ramp. Lands and mana creatures and mana rocks, oh my! Maybe now the people raging about a 6th colour will finally give it a rest. I foresee a lot of useful cards for EDH. So I can officially be excited!
December 11, 2015 4:43 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #19
As long as it doesn't mess with my slivers...
...ohh I want a colourless sliver now with waste mana...
December 11, 2015 5:20 p.m.
IvoryFrost says... #20
it would be interesting, I don't know what ability it would contribute, maybe +1/1 counters or make all your slivers in your hand, deck, graveyard and battlefield colourless as well?
December 11, 2015 6:31 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #21
RubyRobin, Mystic Gate is NOT strictly better than Wastes though.
As has already been pointed out, Wastes has lots of utility that other lands don't have. Wastes can be fetched with Evolving Wilds, it can't be hit by Sundering Titan (while the shocks and ABURs can). Mystic Gate gets screwed by Blood Moon; Wastes doesn't.
Is it better? Yeah, probably. But is it 'strictly better'? Absolutely not.
December 11, 2015 11:14 p.m.
What do people think about the legitamancy of indignation cliff and the expedition mystic gate
December 12, 2015 1:18 a.m.
Wasn't the spoiled waste "basic" not a basic land, but rather a common tho?
It shouldn't be fetchable with evolving wilds then.
December 12, 2015 1:28 a.m.
avrgeboy123 says... #25
TobyG : 'tis a fake. Copyright year is 2015 on the "leaked" photos. Oath is 2016
December 12, 2015 4:28 a.m.
Mystic Gate's 2015 copyright year can be explained by it being part of the same set (the expedition set) that was released along with Battle for Zendikar, in 2015. The half WOTC is releasing with Oath could easily have a 2015 copyright years just for sake of consistency within a single set of supplemental product.
December 12, 2015 6:42 a.m.
So it's cheaper for its Surge cost and all you have to have done to bag yourself a juicy fat token creature is to have played any other spell already... Yeah I'm on board :)
December 12, 2015 9:35 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #29
I like this new mechanic. It makes low CMC spells relevant in the late game, which is always nice for deckbuilding.
Mechanics that make you think when building your deck are always great.
December 12, 2015 9:43 a.m.
This mechanic gives me hope for some interesting cards out of the set. Especially if the surge cost is typically going to be lower.
December 12, 2015 10:06 a.m.
QUESTION: can abilities like Sapphire Medallion reduce alternative costs like Surge or Evoke? (Mulldrifter)
December 12, 2015 10:23 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #32
Yes because alternative casting costs are still casting costs. (As far as I know; I could be wrong.)
December 12, 2015 10:36 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #34
It'll see commander play for sure, but I don't know about standard. Maybe in a big control deck, but mainly just commander.
December 12, 2015 10:58 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #37
Hey guys, what are the chances of something like this:
Flowing Currents: 
Sorcery
Draw 1 card, Surge: , When Flowing Currents is cast for its surge cost, put a 2/1 blue squid creature token on the battlefield with flying.
That would be a modern playable surge card. VERY modern playable, perhaps even eternal playable. 2/1 flyers trade with Insectile Aberration and burn creatures. It's great in delver (draw a card, make a 2/1 flyer, and a 1/1 elemental from young pyro for 1 mana). It also has good synergy with Serum Visions - cast visions to scry something good to the top, then surge Currents to get a token and that card to the hand. It can also be used as a wincon in control because if they use a removal spell on the token, you're building advantage, and if they let it live, you have an evasive clock and a wincon.
December 12, 2015 1:03 p.m. Edited.
GreenGhost says... #38
That card is too strong. Just they flying alone makes this cards busted.
December 12, 2015 1:06 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #39
Awwwww. But it's a sorcery!
Plus, look at Treasure Cruise. Wizards is good at making broken cards without knowing it.
December 12, 2015 1:07 p.m.
Wizards knows enough not to print 1 mana cantrups on a 2/1 flying body
December 12, 2015 1:11 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #41
Woah, they put the word teammate on a card in Standard
-shifts nervously-
December 12, 2015 1:33 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #43
Dang it, I'd speculate on a reprint of Imperial Mask, but it's just too outside Zendikari flavor :(
December 12, 2015 3:42 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #44
Magicrafter well yeah, they already said OGW is going to focus heavilly on Two Headed Giant gameplay.
December 12, 2015 3:58 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #45
aaron.jacob that's what most people say with every single new set that comes out that introduces new things (and hell, even some sets that don't). :P
December 12, 2015 4:06 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #46
canterlotguardian: Yeah, it's just so weird seeing it on the card.
December 12, 2015 4:18 p.m.
Surge could be very interesting on instants. I realise Crush of Tentacles is not, but if it were, then you could cast a creature spell, and whilst it's on the stack pay CoT's surge cost, which would then resolve first giving the (sort of) board wipe and then the octopus, and then your creature would resolve. Could make for some interesting design space on future surge cards.
December 12, 2015 4:25 p.m.
I hate the idea of this new colourless mana. I hope after OotGW they just move on from this horrible idea. Kozilek is my favourite Titan, and I don't like to see him ruined by this.
Why didn't they just have colourless symbol in BFZ. Its so stale just to have it in one set and not the other.
The pilgrim is OK, I'm just not sure where it fits in flavour-wise... It's not even an ally.
Oath is going to suck.
December 12, 2015 4:26 p.m.
GoblinBushwacker says... #49
Malvion the new colorless mana is hear to stay, so deal with it.
December 12, 2015 4:31 p.m.
The pilgrim isn't an ally because she worshiped Ula.....
bennybubbles says... #1
I understand that a lot of people are spikes, what I'm saying is that BFZ as a set isn't bad just because there isn't a huge amount of cards that are elite playable, a fact which I understand completely. I may be a Timmy Vorthos, but I still see the meta, and there isn't too much BFZ stuff going around.
December 10, 2015 9:22 p.m.