Official Spoiler Thread: Oath Of The Gatewatch
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 3, 2015, 5:58 p.m. by ChiefBell
Official Spoiler Thread.
Have at it.
BlastercoolWeird says... #2
surge is such a beautifully elegant mechanic. It works reasonably well in both 1v1 and 2HG, plus what the surge cost does can be really variable, it may just be cheaper, it can add additional cool effects a la Kicker.
I'm super pumped about seeing what they do with that mechanic.
@Malvion could you explain your reasons for not liking the new symbol for colorless and its use on kozilek?
December 12, 2015 6:44 p.m.
GreenGhost says... #3
Sorry I missed the link to the pilgrim. Could someone post a link to it?
December 12, 2015 6:45 p.m.
@Malvion Colorless mana is not new, as it's been around since magic's beginning. What's new is the symbol. Before "colorless mana" and "generic mana costs" shared the same symbol making it impossible to differentiate between the two when it was in the cost of the card. Take Sol Ring for example, although the symbol for it's cost and the symbol in it's activated ability are essentially identical (the numbers differ to show an amount), they mean two different things. 
in the cost represents 1 generic mana cost meaning that 
,
,
,
,
, or colorless mana could be spent to cast it. The 
in it's activated ability represents that your adding 2 mana devoid of color to your mana pool. By changing the symbol for colorless mana to something different than the symbol for generic mana cost, they can now differentiate between the two in cost of spells or abilities. For example, before the symbol change, the new Kozilek's cost would have read 
. It's easy to see why this would have been confusing, because while this actually reads as a cost of 8 generic mana and 2 colorless mana there is no way to differentiate between the two without context and would most like be read as a cost of 
. Obviously, spending 8 mana of any color and 2 specifically colorless mana is not the same as spending 10 mana of any color and now they can distinguish between this fact. The new <> symbol in a cost simply means 1 specifically colorless mana the same way a symbol in a cost means 1 white mana and will mean 1 mana of any color just like it always has.
December 12, 2015 7:06 p.m.
So, what are your thoughts on the new card? what about the surge mechanic?
December 12, 2015 8:16 p.m.
Should be modern playable as well... U can probe into it on turn 5
December 12, 2015 8:41 p.m.
I could see it seeing fringe modern play. 5 mana + a free cantrip is a bit restrictive, but not undoable. We might even see a rise of a BloomTitan-like UGx deck that runs it as a four-of finisher. Who can say.
December 12, 2015 8:45 p.m.
I don't really like the surge mechanic... If there's a really broken surge card for EDH, I'll buy it, but not the new spoiled one...
December 12, 2015 8:55 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #10
I personally really dig this card, 6 mana for a bounce boardwipe that hits all nonland permanents (oh shit sweet combo w/ Awaken!) is a decent rate and frankly what Cyclonic Rift should have been.
if you can surge cast this in standard and it resolves I imagine your opponents gonna have a rough time stabilizing if they're a non-control deck, an 8/8 trumps most individual creatures in this standard outside of Ulamog and Kozilek, so aggro lists and possibly midrange will have to deal with you "abyssing" them each combat while you deploy your own cards as normal.
December 12, 2015 9:33 p.m.
AwesomeName says... #11
Hey guys, not sure if this has been discussed here before, but since a big theme of the set is going to be working with a teammate, how do you think the drafting going to work? Are the matches also going to be two headed giant, so that the cards that care about working with teams have a stronger use?
Also, the new card is sweet. I'm looking forward to the surge ability, it seems cool.
December 12, 2015 10:51 p.m. Edited.
The surge card is insane... Modern playable for sure. Probe into it on 5 mana... Board wipe + 8/8 for 3UU is crazy.. Especially on early turns
December 12, 2015 11:23 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #13
I don't think so. 5 mana is a lot in modern and if you're banking on that 8/8 to go all the way, any deck that hasn't won by turn 5 will have an answer to it.
December 12, 2015 11:30 p.m.
To elaborate, I could see it in grixis, and for sure in bloom. It's perfect for bloom, ramp into it, clear away all of a deck like affinity's early drops, then drop an 8/8 that they just can't handle.
You could get it out on like turn 2. its a perfect counter to affinity and maybe even zoo
December 12, 2015 11:31 p.m.
Also you don't have to bank on the 8/8 to win. I could see it in grixis because it's a great 2 for 1. Probe to draw a card and see his hand. Then clear the board and present a must kill threat. In a value deck it's just combining two cards. Eventually you'll slip one creature through and bam that's a victory
December 12, 2015 11:38 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #16
It's too much mana for grixis. Grixis is all I play and I know the deck pretty well. Grixis Control is not hard control, so a big board clear that makes us re-delve again is not very good. Also, on turn 5 at the earliest? If we're still alive on turn 5 against the decks where that card would be a blow out, then we're already likely to win. It's just a win more card in grixis, if even that. Esper control perhaps, but they too don't want anything quite like that. Normal board wipes barely see play and they're leagues better than that in the format. It's just another big dumb bulk timmy card in modern. I don't know enough about Bloom Titan to say if it belongs, but I don't see it. Mono-U tron could use it I guess, but it'd be awkward and Oblivion Stone is almost always better.
I can definitely see it being loved in commander, though.
If you can't tell, I'm not very good at hyping over new sets.
December 12, 2015 11:46 p.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #17
I like the fact that the filterlands shall finally be reprinted as expedition lands, but they shall still be ridiculously expensive to purchase as singles, due to how rare the expedition lands are, and the fact that there are only twenty remaining expedition lands has me worried that there shall not be enemy-colored "battle lands," since there are ten filterlands, leaving only ten more spaces in the expeditions, unless there are five battle lands and five other lands, of some form.
December 12, 2015 11:53 p.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #18
It could be 5 enemy battles and 5 fastlands, or it could be the 10 manlands. I'm hoping for manlands personally because I'm a modern player. Do standard decks really need the enemy 5 battlelands? I don't standard, so I don't have any clue personally, but I've heard that standard really doesn't need it.
December 13, 2015 12:29 a.m.
We're only getting the 3 other enemy man-lands in OGW. Here is my explanation why.
December 13, 2015 12:33 a.m.
The more consistent customers of my LGS are slowly getting into FoW. I can't help but think if modern fetches, filters, etc cost just $2.00-$5.00 none of us would have picked up FoW. What's this have to do with Standard? Well, expensive modern staplesc have to come through standard via reprint for them to reach modern. (Supplemental products are only about as helpful as vitamin supplements...)
Point is I've stopped caring about expeditions. These reprints only drive the prices of the originals down for a few weeks or at best a few months and then the prices are as high or higher than they ever were.
I do still greatly enjoy looking at new sets for more commander cards though. New Kozilek is gonna be nuts in EDH. "Oh you wanted to path that? Let me discard this Grafdigger's Cage that's useless against your deck."
December 13, 2015 12:34 a.m.
it doesn't need it, but it would be insane... as of right now 3 and 4 color decks have to shortcut on mana using a 4th basic land type (example: for mardu color deck you need delta to get smoldering marsh for BR and prairie stream for W) with the other battlelands you could get all 3 colors with any fetch in the color wedge
December 13, 2015 12:36 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #22
Hmmm. So standard would have been better had they printed the enemy battlelands instead of the friendlies?
December 13, 2015 12:41 a.m.
Since we already have great 4 color mana bases I wish they would go ahead and eliminate that small chance of mana screw so that games would just be more efficient. I mean last monday all of my 4 color opponents took 2-3 minutes just figuring out their mana then like 20 seconds casting spells. Meanwhile I was playing Ulamog ramp thinking "god you're going to bring us to time hurry up!"
If people are having to use a few weird fetches or slow/tango-lands then it'll help speed up play I think. First you eliminate a little more mana screw so that decks can perform consitently and secondly people are faster at getting mana when they can match the background colors of their fetches and slow lands at a glance.
December 13, 2015 12:44 a.m.
I should clarify what I meant was give us the other half of our lands for standard.
December 13, 2015 12:45 a.m.
sick name btw... we have fast lands, now we have slow lands!
better than all the tango, banjo, and lame battle land crap
December 13, 2015 12:52 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #26
Agreed. Slow lands should be the proper name.
December 13, 2015 1:22 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #27
I've heard tangos, slow lands, battle lands, etc.
Slow lands makes the most sense though. It's better to avoid jargonizing the game more than it already is.
December 13, 2015 1:45 a.m.
Slow lands makes good sense though I personally like Late Lands.
Ultimately though I agree with Jake that the jargon gets very heavy especially amongst experienced and competitive players. Getting to grips with the game as a new player (as we have all been once) or retuning player like myself becomes really complicated in LGS groups or message boards. Ah well nothing doing I suppose, rant over - I'll live with it XD
December 13, 2015 2:46 a.m.
I thought it was agreed that Tango would be the universal name for them not long after BFZ was released? Are people really still trying to force other names?
December 13, 2015 3:12 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #32
Slow lands is silly, as there are slower lands out there (gates, etc...) Tangos is the prefered name, IMO. It's certainly the only name my playgroup uses.
December 13, 2015 3:12 a.m.
I personally like tangos as well, but have stopped using the term because you have to explain it to anyone who doesn't watch magicTV... Tangos was decided to be universal by mashi... But he failed
Slow is nice and intuitive, and while it isn't as slow as ETB tapped lands, it's the opposite of "the fast lands". One comes in tapped if you have 2 or more other lands, and these come in tapped if you have less than 2 basics.
It makes sense, so I'll use it
December 13, 2015 3:50 a.m.
golffore297 says... #34
Forbidden Orchard and Ancient Tomb have been confirmed for expeditions in Oath. Link to come when posted.
December 13, 2015 8:21 a.m.
Coinman1863 says... #37
Huh, who really expected these lands? I sure didn't.
December 13, 2015 8:38 a.m.
IvoryFrost says... #38
I really do hope we get a Cavern of Souls expedition, but also an actual reprint reprint...
I kind of need them...
December 13, 2015 8:44 a.m.
@IvoryFrost a real reprint would be great. I hate counterspells, but my playgroup/lgs LOVES them lol
December 13, 2015 8:53 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #40
I needs me an Ancient Tomb. Or four. You know. Legacy.
December 13, 2015 8:58 a.m.
shepherdofire says... #42
What about the man lands. I want a playset of expedition Shambling Vent.
December 13, 2015 10:22 a.m. Edited.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #43
NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE
Ancient tombs are going to cost a lot though...
December 13, 2015 10:24 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #44
Darn it. I wanted manlands. Awwww man. So anyone wanna guess what the other ones are? I think Tectonic Edge might make it Cavern of Souls should. Too bad Tomb isn't modern legal and Orchard isn't widely modern playable. What if they reprint Tomb in standard and make it modern-legal :O Something tells me they won't do that.
December 13, 2015 11:28 a.m.
20 expeditions in total for Oath, right? What if we see 10 mainlands, 5 random lands (ancient tomb, etc) and 5 enemy slow/battle/tango/whatever you want to call them lands?
December 13, 2015 11:31 a.m.
ToolmasterOfBrainerd says... #46
But there are already the 10 filterlands.
December 13, 2015 11:33 a.m.
Coinman1863 says... #47
I almost half expect to see strip mine here for the EDH players.
December 13, 2015 11:33 a.m.
I would probably have an aneurism and buy seven boxes. I need them for modern infect.
Ashockfan says... #1
WOW that card is insane
December 12, 2015 5:45 p.m.