Oko spoiled?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 3, 2019, 3:41 p.m. by AgentGreen
ScreenRant has an early preview of the newest planeswalker to the multiverse. Oko, Thief of crowns.
4 Loyalty
+2 Create a food token (huh?)
+1 Target Artifact or creature loses all abilities and becomes a green Elk creature with base power and toughness 3/3
-5 Exchange control of target artifact or creature you control and target creature an opponent controls with power 3 or less
Right now the wildcard is that +2. What are food tokens?
multimedia says... #3
Forbes revealed the new Oko Planeswalker card.
This guy is damn weird. Let the speculation about Food begin...
September 3, 2019 4:09 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #4
Jank found:
- +1 enemy fatty
- -5 resulting Elk
- Cloudshift
September 3, 2019 4:56 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #5
I’m gonna say it. I’m bummed out. Black and Red are soo integral to this character’s personality!! I get blue, but green? Is it just cuz he’s a fey? Disappointing.
Am I still gonna use him in my Roon of the Hidden Realm deck? Obviously. But sad beans overall.
September 3, 2019 5:38 p.m.
multimedia says... #6
Knowing Wizards and their obsession with boring +1/+1 counters; a Food token may be a source of a counter. Sac the token to put a counter on a creature you control which grows it acting like food. Oko is Simic and Wizards loves to make +1/+1 counters a Simic mechanic. Proliferate was big in WAR which is good with counters.
A creative idea is to make Food tokens enchantments. Treasure and Clue tokens are artifacts; it's time to give enchantments some love. I fully expect an enchantment themed set to happen in the next couple of sets most likely a return to Theros. If this turns out to be the case then having sources of enchantment tokens could be good.
September 3, 2019 6:38 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #7
I like this character, but what is a food token? Why is WotC making a new type of token?
Also, WotC was setting up Garruk to be a new major villain, and this new, previously-unseen character usurps him? That is poor storytelling, without a question.
September 3, 2019 7:11 p.m.
TypicalTimmy I agree with your assessment. I just read the summary of the book the released to introduce Eldraine. One thing I will say is that Garruk won’t be turned into a dog, but will go from being a self-motivated predator to becoming a subservient underling.
It looks like Oko wants to use Garruk’s abilities and prowess to “ [declare] that they will travel the multiverse together “to seek rule-bound tyrants to overthrow, pious frauds and smug deceivers to unmask, and hypocritical liars to expose.”
It would seem that Oko’s first target would be whoever sits atop the Throne of Eldraine, hence the title ‘Thief of Crowns’.
September 3, 2019 9:11 p.m.
Addendum: Oko will refer to Garruk as “Dog” because of the particular spell that was cast. Seems to akin to Pacifism
September 3, 2019 9:13 p.m.
multimedia says... #10
We now know what a Food token is and it's underwhelming :(
Food is an artifact token with , , Sacrifice this artifact: You gain 3 life.
September 4, 2019 12:10 a.m. Edited.
multimedia says... #11
There also Food artifacts, not just Food artifact tokens.
Looks like Food may be a whole new type of artifact which is strange.
September 4, 2019 12:16 a.m.
multimedia that’s incredibly odd. I like the idea and flavor, especially if we get something Hansel and Gretel themed.
Your point stands though, I think it is slightly underwhelming. Lifegain decks will certainly have a field day with them though.
September 4, 2019 12:27 a.m.
To be fair, creating food is the most common power of Fae of British folklore, so it is fairly thematic. 2 mana to gain 3 life is significant though, cards that can cosistently do that are incredibly powerful.
HIs second ability means dealing with any most problematic permanents in Modern, with decent aplications in Current Standard as well.
The ultimate is incredibly synergistic with his kit and easily abusable.
An above average (7 out of 10) walker for sure.
September 4, 2019 6:48 a.m.
AgentGreen says... #14
There's one flaw with your theory TypicalTimmy
Garruk would immediately identify Rowan as a planeswalker and his instincts would kick in, and his instincts is to kill all planeswalkers on the spot. Oko didn't encounter Garruk; Garruk ambushed him and wanted him dead because...well...he is a walker
September 4, 2019 9:30 a.m.
ProzD is one step closer to a curious cows cheese token deck?
September 4, 2019 10:20 a.m.
AgentGreen these aren’t theories. They were pulled from the intro story from Throne.
September 4, 2019 11:29 a.m.
My image didnt work... here: http://mythicspoiler.com/ted/cards/tomeoflegends.html
September 4, 2019 2:15 p.m.
And command tower? Is it really in this set? It has the set symbol... http://mythicspoiler.com/ted/cards/commandtower.html
September 4, 2019 2:19 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #20
Could be Brawl-product cards, like Arcane Signet .
September 4, 2019 3:21 p.m.
DwaginFodder says... #21
Commander is reference multiple times in cards exclusive to the Brawl precons. Command Tower is in each Brawl precon.
September 4, 2019 3:24 p.m.
Hey since the brawl precons are supposed to be standard legal, doesn't that mean command tower is currently standard legal?
September 4, 2019 6:10 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #23
Disappointed by the conservative cost of Syr Gwyn, Hero of Ashvale . Go-wide Equipment seems like it would be neat, but CMC 6 is a bit too much; 4 or even 5 with adjusted P/T would have been way more EDH-friendly, although I dunno if that's too aggressive for Standard (and Brawl).
September 5, 2019 12:42 a.m.
multimedia says... #24
So far there's two good cards that give me some reason to want to play Food and Oko.
Both these cards can create Food and can use Food better ways than gaining life. Ironically, these cards are using Food like it's either a Treasure or a Clue :)
September 5, 2019 4:13 a.m.
DwaginFodder says... #25
dbpunk Yes, all cards printed in the Brawl decks are standard-legal. You can play Command Tower and Arcane Signet in a Standard deck, but they will not tap for any mana because you do not have a commander.
Funkydiscogod Since there was errata with the addition of Dinosaur as a creature type with Ixalan's release, I see no reason why WotC would not bring Noble and Warlock to the appropriate creatures. This enables more lines of play via Tribal decks and would keep flavor consistent.
September 5, 2019 11:30 a.m.
Also I kind of see how lord and Noble would differ in terms of creature type.
Nobles are selfish and don't generally give a boon to creatures that share a type with it flavorfully.
Lords are known as Lords because they do.
September 5, 2019 2:38 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #27
Wow, some of these spoilers are quite impressive!
Food tokens could have been good, but the fact that you need to tap them and pay 2 mana to gain 3 life is simply too great a cost to pay, in my mind; in my mind, only in a truly desperate situation would that cost be worth paying. Also, the wording on gilded goose and savvy hunter is very grammatically incorrect: “sacrifice a food?” “sacrifice two foods?” Who decided that that was acceptable?
As for the unusual new card frame: it seems that those cards can be cast as either creatures or instants/sorceries, and each part has a different name; do they count as both types in all zones?
I see that knights shall have a tribal element in this set, which makes sense, for a set with a traditional high fantasy story. Circle of loyalty is nice, but the fact that it must be tapped to use its final ability severely limits its usefulness. Given that Mobilization , Luminarch Ascension Ghave, Guru of Spores , and Ant Queen do not need to be tapped, I believe that this card would not be overpowered if it did not need to be tapped, either.
Fireborn knight is very awesome, but four mana to give it a mere +1/+1 is ridiculous, even if it does have double strike; three mana would have been perfectly balanced, in my mind.
As expected, there is awesome new art from Seb McKinnon in this set, but I hope that other long-time artists, such as Wayne Reynolds, Todd Lockwood, and Terese Nielsen illustrate some cards, as well, plus, this set would be the perfect place for Rebecca Guay to return (and a return by Ron Spencer and Thomas M. Baxa would be nice, as well), and I would like to see at least one piece by either Raymond Swanland or Steve Argyle, as well. The promo version of smitten swordmaster almost looks like it was illustrated by McKinnon, so it seems that that artist, Shawn Wood, may be competing with McKinnon in the realm of “creepily romantic” artwork.
Syr Konrad is awesome, but why does he deal damage, rather than causing loss of life, especially when there are other cards in this very set that cause loss of life?
I see no reason why heraldic banner could not have increase the toughness of creatures, as well as their power.
Why did the story writers need to make Oko be from a plane other than Eldraine? This plane would have been the perfect place to be his home, rather than creating another new plane that has fey to serve as his home. On the other hand, this game finally has a fairy planeswalker! That is very cool, but his personality is definitely black/blue, whereas his card is green/blue.
The fact that neither lovestruck beast nor smitten swordmaster are red is a major flavor fail, to me, since the classic tales that inspired both of them both definitely featured characters who would be red in this game.
How does a crystal slipper make a creature more powerful? I suppose that one could say that it is magic, or that the equipped creature uses it to kick an opponent, but it still does not seem as if it would be very useful in combat.
Witching well and midnight clock are both great, but the fact that they are colored really makes me sad, since being colorless is what makes artifacts so great. I have no problem with colored artifacts, but I really hope that WotC does not give all the awesome and powerful abilities only to colored artifacts and leave colorless artifacts with only weak abilities.
Wishful merfolk has awesome art, but the card itself is very lackluster, which is unfortunate, since players have been speculating about it since the artwork was revealed. However, I would like to know for what reason she seeks vengeance, and I hope that that is revealed either in the novel or on other cards.
Rankle is very awesome, but the fact that his controller may choose all three of his abilities whenever he deals combat damage makes him too powerful for four mana, in my mind; he either should have had a higher initial casting cost or been able to use only one ability at a time.
The card with both Will and Rowan is great! I do hope that it is not too expensive in terms of money, but the fact that they cost only thee mana may make them expensive in that regard. This is also the first planeswalker card to depict two characters and have two subtypes, so I hope that this set has cards that care about those subtypes.
It seems that fairies in this set shall be every color except for red, which is very interesting, since I have been wishing to see more white fairies for some time.
Wow, there are some very nice three-colored legendary creatures in this set, which I am certain that players of EDH shall appreciate.
Steelbane hydra would be awesome for my Atraxa EDH deck, but I unfortunately cannot remove any card from that deck to make room for it.
That new artwork for Command Tower is very nice, but will it be available in foil? I cannot decide if I should keep my copies with the original artwork or replace them with that version (or, perhaps, I could have some of each).
Why was it necessary to add “warlock” as a creature type? Surely, “wizard” can encompass the majority of spellcasting archetypes from fantasy, just as “zombie” is an all encompassing term for undead being in this game, including liches, mummies, and ghouls, which are all different beings, at least in MtG’s sibling game, Dungeons & Dragons.
September 5, 2019 7:26 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #29
1) "sacrifice two foods" is not grammatically incorrect.
2) no a creature on an adventure counts as a creature in all zones except the stack as the adventure is being cast.
3) Fireborn Knight is clearly made for limited, and I suspect it'll serve its purpose just fine.
4) you are super nitpicky
5) I would argue that Oko's "fight the power" attitude makes him distinctly red/black. It's really just his powers that are blue.
6) the crystal slipper clearly empowers the character emotionally, and so is much stronger than simply making someone stronger.
7) it makes sense for the artifacts to be blue, so I really don't see the issue with it.
8) I agree that Rankle is pretty pushed, but I'm surprised that you're worried about it, as you seem to want everything else to be well more pushed than Rankle. The symmetry of his effect makes it really risky, and I can actually foresee a lot of scenarios where you're not gonna want to swing with him, for fear of losing more card advantage- or gaining less- than your opponents!
9) the new Rowan/Will card seems like great value but not much else. It can kinda just fit in anywhere. Those cards are not for me but I definitely see why the spikes like it.
10) as a commander player myself, I can confirm, these new legends are very exciting.
11) the Warlock subtype was added for two reasons: 1- in non-rotating formats, it's important to ensure that no tribe gets too powerful, and part of that is just ensuring it doesn't get a million cards. 2 (and more importantly)- they are clearly flavorfully distinct from wizards! Your zombie argument is poignant, but I remind you that zombies are mechanically distinct from skeletons! It's like that. They're zombies when they have their flesh, skeletons when they don't. Wizards are warlocks when they tinker with dark magics.
September 6, 2019 1:41 p.m.
Also, on the Warlock topic, by the argument that "all spellcasters are wizards", we should just eratta all shamans, druids and clerics to be wizards then too. They all cast spells, but flavorfully they're extremely different from wizards. Just like Warlocks.
September 6, 2019 2 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #31
Has it been confirmed that Rankle, Master of Pranks doesn't let you choose zero modes?
September 6, 2019 3:52 p.m.
DwaginFodder says... #32
Coward_Token Release notes aren't out yet, but zero is a number, so almost definitely.
ZendikariWol and also others, Oko is Simic in that he feels constrained from his natural state, a very green principle, he dislikes hypocrisy, which is fairly blue, and he wants to bring change in order to better the Fae, and adaptation is a Simic principle. While there is an overlap here between Rakdos and Simic, he is NOT about freedom for freedom's sake, and he is not personally ambitious or sadistic, just mischievous.
September 6, 2019 4:31 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #33
DwaginFodder, I gotta say I disagree. From what I've read of Oko (that is, not the book), he holds a very black worldview, believing that people do inherently suck, that it's in our nature. It's not his hatred of hypocrites that cements him as black, but his understanding that everyone is a hypocrite. His belief that those in power are worse and his subsequent resentment of authority is what makes him red, as well as his impulsive nature.
September 6, 2019 5:58 p.m.
DwaginFodder says... #34
Oko isn't self-centered or personally ambitious. He doesn't see everyone as hypocritical, but focuses his change upon those who are. As for red, he's very calm about his grudges. He doesn't rage against the machine, he makes points where he knows they'll cause change. His hatred of authority doesn't come from authority being authoritative, but from it preventing him from being his natural self. He recognizes the need for authority yet doesn't aspire to it. He isn't impulsive, but opportunistic and mischievous.
September 6, 2019 7:36 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #35
Hating authority bc it "prevents you from being your natural self" (which I'll admit, you're right about) is a suuuper Red trait. We need a real, solid source to debate this from how bout we take a look at the Forbes article Oko was introduced on?
"Styling himself as a speaker of truth, Oko felt he held a mirror to the hypocrisy of his world." "Oko... sees nothing as sacred, least of all the most noble of emotions." "Never having to deal with the consequences of your actions if you don't want to." (when asked "What's the best part about being a planeswalker?)
Beyond that, Oko's plan through the whole of the Wildered Quest was to kill the king. Why? To disrupt the peace. No other reason.
However, you were definitely right about the Blue. He is. But he's also Red and Black, and I'll stand by that.
September 6, 2019 9:13 p.m.
DwaginFodder says... #36
I'd argue he killed the king in order to let nature run its course, much like the Gruul strip society to its bones so that the strong rise from the rubble. I can certainly see your argument for red, but from what I've heard of his personality in the book, he's too cool and collected to feel red to me.
I really don't get black at all, though. Oko isn't personally ambitious. He may be cruel, but that isn't necessarily a black trait; nature is cruel in its own way, too.
September 6, 2019 9:28 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #37
But if not ambitious, Oko is deeply self-absorbed and has a very Black state of mind. He rejects the concept of moral ideals (see above), and believes that the world is a place of greed and amorality and the real difference between him and the hypocrites is that he's forthright about the corruption that life is composed of (see above).
September 6, 2019 10:02 p.m.
DwaginFodder says... #38
Rejecting the concept of moral ideals just means Oko isn't white. He might see society as corrupt, but a dislike of organization and civil structures is also very green. From your quotation, Oko "held a mirror to the hyocrisy of the world." This doesn't necessarily mean that he sees the entire world as hypocritical or amoral, just that his end goal is to demonstrate to hypocrites their hypocrisy. Additionally, his use of the mirror metaphor shows him to be reactive, not spontaneous (red) or self-serving (black). The Rakdos identity is about freedom from every restraint imaginable, including laws and morality. Sultai (Simic with the addition of black) is about applying the laws of natural selection and survival of the fittest to battles for personal or political power. Oko is pure Sultai in that his end goal is to remove the limits of hypocrisy from the Fae and their ruling systems across the planes so that they'll be better able to use their natural abilities to survive.
September 7, 2019 8:47 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #40
"Black looks at all the other colors and feels that each of them sees the world as they wish it to be. Black is the only realist, the only color to look and see the world as it is." -Mark Rosewater, of the Council of Colors.
Compare this to the following quote- I know you've already heard it from me but it bears repeating here, "Styling himself as a speaker of truth, Oko felt he held a mirror to the hypocrisy of his world."
Black is, I'd say, Oko's primary color. Honestly though, you may be right about Red. Oko doesn't really act on impulse; his only distinctly Red trait is despising the restrictions of society, and that is also heavily featured in Black. It's just that I reeeeally don't get how this guy could be seen as Green!
Disliking order is not Green at all- in fact they believe the order is inherent to life!
"In addition, you have to learn how you fit into the larger picture. Nature has a beautiful structure. Part of life is recognizing what role you play and how that role interconnects with the web of life. You're not alone. You're part of a complex system full of interdependencies." -Also from Mark Rosewater.
Worth noting, back to the Forbes article, that when asked what Oko felt the worst part of being a planeswalker was, the response was "To Oko, it would be feeling alone in the Multiverse." Green never feels alone because it understands that it's constantly surrounded by beauty and life.
I think you've made a lot of great points, and now that I've looked into it, I think you're right about him not really being Red. But seriously, I just cannot see Green. Maybe we could just agree to disagree, but I'm genuinely interested in your stance here.
September 7, 2019 11:23 a.m.
DwaginFodder says... #41
I'm going to be honest with you, this is probably the most pleasant and fun debate on the internet I've ever had. We likely could agree to disagree, but I also feel like I can still convince you to add green. :P
I've given up on Oko not being black - from other discussions I've had on the subject, there's plenty of evidence to support that, from his treatment of Garruk in the book to his Planeswalker Deck art. However, he certainly isn't plain Dimir. Blue/black as a color combination is about the gathering of information to suit one's desires. This is demonstrated quite well by Lazav of House Dimir and the Dragonlord Silumgar. While Oko certainly cares about the flow of information (re: demonstrating hypocrisy of others), he doesn't hoard information like a UB character. He doesn't gather secrets (like Lazav), schemes (like Silumgar), or even dreams (like Ashiok and Oona). He has a purpose and distributes information to meet that end. He doesn't gather a pile of hypocrisy and just sit on it, he seeks it out and overturns it.
Green, more so than black in my eyes, is Oko's defining color. Everything he does is based in his sense of what is natural. He dislikes societal order much in the same way Vivien does; not because it's an order, but because it's an "unnatural" order imposed upon nature. The reason he couldn't stand repression of his powers was because it wasn't natural. As for Oko feeling alone, that could be seen as green too. Planeswalkers stand out as disconnected from a world's culture wherever they travel. In many cases, their travels alter them sufficiently so that they no longer mesh with their home plane, either. They become disconnected from the natural cycle of any one plane because, as Oko points out, they no longer have to deal with certain consequences (admittedly a very black sentiment). Oko merely hasn't realized something that Ugin has: Planeswalkers are part of a greater multiversal cycle that we have all yet to comprehend.
Regardless of whether or not I've convinced you, thanks a bunch for taking time out of your day to have this discussion with me. It's been real interesting!
September 8, 2019 10:42 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #42
DwaginFodder: I agree on your green take. Pre-curse Garruk was pretty much defined by his alienation from other people (see e.g. Garruk's Packleader & Harmonize ), and Nissa expressed similar anxieties (see e.g. her thoughts in the Kaladesh story).
I'm IMO leaning towards Oko being
(I would also like to take advantage of this moment to shoehorn in my interpretation of Liliana: https://tappedout.net/mtg-articles/2018/aug/30/pattern-recognition-81/#c3378596)
September 8, 2019 11:03 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #43
Worth noting, it's been stated time and again that the guilds are not the only interpretation of a color pair's identity. Silumgar's interpretation of blue/black, since you brought it up, resembles quite a bit what I know of Oko. Silumgar is constantly scheming, vying for his ends, and that's just like Oko- though their preferred ends differ quite a bit (Oko's is chaos and Silumgar's is wealth/decadence). It's more about the plotting and scheming itself than hoarding.
I feel like maybe I'm gonna have to buy the book to get the green, cuz by now I have absolutely scoured every source I could find on Oko and I just can't see it. Been a really fun debate, and once I read the book I will surely return. Will it be to concede or to fight back with a fresh load of ammo, who knows? Either way it's been a lot of fun.
September 8, 2019 1:03 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #44
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187583668003/if-oko-had-a-third-color-what-do-you-think-itd
September 9, 2019 12:46 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #45
DO we yet have a single a definitive thread for Throne of Eldraine?
If so, The Magic Mirror is very awesome, but please notice that its ability is mandatory, so any player who uses it should be certain to have a way to prevent themselves from losing due to not having any cards in their library or either win the game or destroy the mirror before that occurs.
It is nice to finally see the card for the artwork with the flaming swords, irencrag feat, but why did WotC change the formatting for adding multiple mana of a single color to one’s mana pool? Do they think that players are so unintelligent that they cannot count individual mana symbols, or was it to conserve space on the cards? Also, the restriction on casting further spells shall severely limit that card’s usefulness, in my mind.
September 14, 2019 11:53 a.m.
looks bad and is hard to quickly identify at a glance. It has nothing to do with intelligence, but rather with avoiding unnecessary slow-downs of the game as a player who isn’t experienced with that card asks to see it and then counts the symbols. With one to four mana symbols, it is pretty easy to tell just by looking; with seven, unless you already know the number it is supposed to be, you’ll probably have to count.
As for the downside, it’s perfect for the card - you’re making a surprise ramp from four to seven mana - that’s incredibly powerful (two Desperate Ritual s would be harder to cast since you need two cards, and only would get you to six). In a colour where you have a number of X cost burn spells, including Banefire which, if cast for seven total mana, couldn’t be countered, I think having some condition is necessary.
Personally, I think it’s great card design, and hope to see more of this kind of restriction.
September 14, 2019 12:07 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #47
RE: Irencraf Feat: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187692972893/will-irencrag-feats-seven-r-templating-be
September 14, 2019 12:12 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #48
Why are the castles not legendary lands? This is similar to how the lands in the first Ravnica and Zendikar blocks were not legendary, despite representing specific and famous locations on those planes.
The flavor text of escape to the wilds intrigues me; who is Ellwen, why was she imprisoned, and how did she escape?
Overwhelmed apprentice is extremely powerful for 1 mana; I would like to believe that this game is not suffering from power creep, but cards such as that one make it difficult to deny that that is happening. Also, blue is supposed to have the least emphasis on creatures in the game, so, while that card does not explicitly violate the color pie, it definitely bends it; if it had cost , I feel that it would have been perfectly balanced.
What prevents forever young from being too powerful? Surely, there should be a restriction on the number of cards that it may return (apart from the fact that it may return only creatures)?
The Cauldron of Eternity could have been very awesome, except for the fact that it requires a players to have a great number of creatures in their graveyard before they cast it, and it cannot return creatures that die after it enters the battlefield, meaning that it eventually will become useless, after it has returned every creature from its owner’s graveyard. Did WotC not think of that? Also, the fact that it can be used only whenever its controller could cast a sorcery severely limits its power, as well. Also, some people are saying that it is a reference to the Holy Grail, but I believe that it is more likely to be a reference to the black cauldron from the book of the same name by Lloyd Alexander (which is the second book of a series known as The Chronicles of Prydain, an amazing book series that I strongly recommend that everyone here should read).
September 17, 2019 7:41 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #49
RE: Castles: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187783989713/mark-can-we-please-please-please-have-more
RE: Cauldron: At least mono- self-mill is becoming increasingly more powerful so you could still fill up your graveyard that way.
September 18, 2019 12:47 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #50
Mystic Sanctuary + Meloku the Clouded Mirror + Time Warp seems like an OK infinitive combo in EDH
ZendikariWol says... #2
Judging by what we know of Oko, he is decidedly red or black, probably both. I’m 90% sure any card of his wouldn’t fall outside the grixis spectrum.
September 3, 2019 4 p.m.