Polluted Delta reprint? Fake.
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on April 14, 2014, 10:49 a.m. by Epochalyptik
So I'm sure some of you have already seen the Polluted Delta reprint floating around.
I'll tell you now, it's fake. TheProxyGuy (Twitter) created it. If you want confirmation, look at the collector's number; the number of cards in M15 is 269, not 267.
You didn't post the other one, with the correct collector's number. Though, I'm not sold on it, but hoping.
April 14, 2014 10:52 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
The Wooded Foothills fake is pretty obvious. It has no set symbol, and it uses the wrong typefaces.
I woke up this morning and saw this in various newsfeeds, and I figured I should probably post this before everyone jumps the gun.
April 14, 2014 10:54 a.m.
Also, the white text on the Foothills is terrible copy&paste, who on earth could fall for that?
April 14, 2014 10:59 a.m.
The set symbol is off on the Polluted Delta, too.
If we got a reprint of the Onslaught fetches, it doubt it would be in a core set.
April 14, 2014 11:01 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #7
Why not? They printed the buddy lands in core sets, too.
April 14, 2014 11:16 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #8
Because fetches and shocks will never be in standard together. Per MaRo
April 14, 2014 11:21 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #9
@RussischerZar: It was later admitted that checks and shocks together kind of ruined Standard. The mana fixing was too good for the format, and Standard soon devolved into tempo and midrange with little variety.
April 14, 2014 11:27 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #10
Well, my comment was meant generally, not speaking about the M15 core set specifically.
April 14, 2014 11:29 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #11
(and in direct answer to meechts comment about them not being in a core set)
April 14, 2014 11:30 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
They might make an appearance as the lands of some future core set. It would certainly bolster what must normally be comparatively abysmal sales (block sets seem to easily outsell core sets).
The only guarantee we have is that the fetches won't be here in time to catch the shocks. After that, it's pretty much fair game. Some people are speculating that the fetches are going to reappear as soon as this coming block. Others say they won't come back for another year or two at least.
April 14, 2014 11:34 a.m.
Fetches are better than Buddy Lands due to synergy with Landfall, the ability to customize your mana, and the minor plus of thinning your deck. There's also the added benefit of shuffling your library.
A reprint in a core set would probably increase sales of that set, but core sets are made with the beginner in mind. New players won't recognize that paying life to get a land is a good idea.
April 14, 2014 11:45 a.m.
They WILL NOT have fetches and shocks in Standard together. MaRo has said so and it's common sense: it would push people out of Standard for years. Modern is where that mana fixing belongs and only where that belongs.
April 14, 2014 12:01 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #15
@Matsi883 Except in Legacy? :)
It wouldn't surprise me to see fetches in a block AFTER the RTR shocks have rotated out. WoTC has been wanting a bigger modern following and reprinting the shocks first THEN the fetches as most people would complain about the prices of the fetches going down significantly. They could then "cover this up" by telling everyone it was their plan all along to get more people interested in modern.
They've already had a second printing of Tarmogoyf in Modern Masters, as well as Remand from the latest Duel Deck.
Hell, the one thing KEEPING me from playing modern is I don't have fetches as I play mostly standard and not enough trade bait to get the fetches. This would make a HUGE surge in modern interest
April 14, 2014 12:12 p.m.
Matsi883 - If they print fetches in M15 there would only be about 2 months where both fetches and shocks are in standard allowing standard players to get a taste of moderns mana base, and it would give many standard players a modern mana base without having to leave standard. That would strategically be a smart move by Wizards if they want to promote modern as a format, which they do.
Having fetches and shocks for that tiny period between M15 and "Huey" would not ruin standard. It would shake it up a bit, but thats only a good thing.
Do you, or anyone else, have the quote where MaRo said fetches and shocks never will exist in standard at the same time? It would be interesting to see the formulation of the answer and the question.
April 14, 2014 12:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #17
@smackjack: I disagree with you. It's a poor decision to compromise Standard for any period of time when the fetch reprint could safely be delayed.
April 14, 2014 12:28 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #19
I'm just going to put this out there:
Note the difference in time between when shock lands were introduced, and when fetch lands were introduced (Shocks in 2006, Fetches in 2009). The shocks were reprinted in 2013. The way I understand maths tells me that we should more likely be expecting the fetchland reprint sometime around late 2015/2016.
Back 2-3 years ago when wizards was developing the huey block, they weren't pushing Modern as hard as they are now. That would lead me to believe that they are only considering a reprint right now in the set that they are currently working on, which will come out in 2-3 years.
Now, this is just me using my common sense, but that has been wrong before, and if anyone has any quotes or facts that disprove me, i'm all ears.
April 14, 2014 12:37 p.m.
This is off topic, but on this page, there is chat about how good the fake is. Just proof of what Epochalyptik is saying (not like he needs it or anything).
April 14, 2014 12:39 p.m.
Epochalyptik I dont play standard so i might be a little naive, but i dont see how having fetches and shocks in standard for a tiny period of time would compromise standard. Standard players who knows the meta and format, please explain why this would be the case.
As a modern player, i know many standard players see the mana base as the number one obstacle to playing modern. Many people (as harrydemon117 said minutes ago) avoids modern because of this. Giving standard players chance to collect fetches before they sell all their shocks due to rotation would be a great way to help people over that obstacle. Just seems like a clever move if they want to promote modern.
All this for the price of giving standard players a good mana base for a very very short period of time.
April 14, 2014 12:43 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #22
@smackjack: The barrier to entry for Standard would skyrocket for two months, and it would remain high after that if the fetches were still reasonably relevant. A high barrier to entry dissuades people from getting into competitive play, and Standard's barrier to entry should be kept low whenever possible because Standard is the gateway format.
As far as format functionality goes, look at ISD-RTR Standard (last rotation) for an example of what can go wrong. Mana fixing of that caliber causes the meta to center around 3- to 5-color decks with demanding mana bases.
April 14, 2014 12:49 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #23
Just like the 2013 season of Thragtusk , a standard format with perfect mana leads to tempo and midrange decks taking over the format, leading to next to zero room for change or seperation. Cards for that style deck would skyrocket in price for those couple of months, and totally throw off secondary market prices. This will piss off shop owners and retailers because all of the cards that used to be high in value will drop almost over night, and they'll lose trust within the retailer community.
Turning standard into modern may sound like fun, but it would pretty much ruin the game for those couple of months, and the next set's sales prices will plummet because all of the players have lost faith.
Just an assumption as to what could happen with a fetch shock manabase.
April 14, 2014 12:51 p.m.
Because it would still be two months of a degenerate format. Modern has the power level to deal with such good mana fixing. Standard, particularly this standard I would argue, does not. We would see only 4 and 5 color midrange decks dominating the format for two months, with little variety. Hell, Chromanticore might become a playable card.
There is also no benefit in regards to selling off shocks by printing the fetches in M15 vs. Huey, because the spoilers for Huey will reveal the Fetches, so people who want to get into modern can save their shocks and still get fetches.
Finally, there is also the possible issue of reprinting the Onslaught fetches. If Wizards doesn't separate out the enemy and ally colored fetches, that would mean they would have to devote 10 rare slots to lands that newcomers would think are crap, not a good idea in a set supposedly for newcomers to the game.
April 14, 2014 12:54 p.m.
@Epochalyptik: Yes, fetches would be expensive even after the reprint. Shocks were too. They reprinted shocks when they cost the same as fetches did, and the big price difference is due to supply and demand.
Innistrad and RtR were standard for a year. Huge difference. This would only be a short period between two sets, not blocks.
Standard meta the last 2 months consists of 22% mono black devotion, 12% mono blue devotion, 3% red deck wins and another 7% of various mono coloured decks. I don't think better possibilities to playing 3-5 colour decks would change the fact that the number one played deck in the meta is mono coloured (MBD). And again, a ~2 months window should not be time enough to really mess up standard.
The upside would be much more relevant. With more people playing modern Wizards can use reprints as a much bigger selling point for boosters and sealed products, and thus increasing sales. Heck, people are buying Jace vs Vraska mainly for the remand. I know i did :)
April 14, 2014 1:27 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #26
The number one decks are mono colored because the mana is so bad that a multicolor deck immediately has a worse chance because it has to wait around for its mana. You can bet that with a fetch shock base, Naya Aggro splashing for Chromanticore would be a big contender for the top.
I totally get where you're coming from if you're not that big into standard, 2 months in any other format isn't too much of a big deal. Standard isn't like other formats though, it's very fragile. Something on the scale of what you're talking about would break it entirely.
April 14, 2014 1:33 p.m.
smackjack, who's dumb enough to sell shocklands? Their value isn't going anywhere. It's like saying: "Well, time to sell thoughseizes, nobody cares about those after Theros".
April 14, 2014 1:35 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #28
@smackjack: I think it's unfair to assess what would happen based entirely on what's happening now. Monocolored decks are most prevalent because the quality of the mana fixing available is less than spectacular. One cycle of duals comes in tapped, the other costs life, and there's none of the nonbasic ramp that graced last rotation. It's easier to play monocolor than it is to play 3+ colors in situations like this because the mana bases are not of the requisite stability and speed.
April 14, 2014 1:36 p.m.
CastleSiege says... #29
TexasDice, I'll only sell/trade my shocks if I'm getting a really good deal. The other day someone offered me his Thoughtseize , Abrupt Decay , and Scavenging Ooze for my Godless Shrine and a few other junk rares. And before anyone jumps to conclusions, I did let him know of the value of everything but he was fine with the trade because he didn't plan on using those cards anyway.
April 14, 2014 1:38 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #30
@TexasDice: People who play only Standard generally dump their Standard stock to finance their play during the next rotation. While I agree that shocks are pretty clearly a good investment, I don't think it's fair to assume that players who sell their shocks are necessarily dumb.
April 14, 2014 1:38 p.m.
@raithe000: As 71% of the current meta is aggro, maybe giving midrange a treat would balance out the game?
I would agree new players wont get why fetches are good. I started playing during RtR. The first thing i did after buying a ton of boosters was to trade 2x Hallowed Fountain for 1x Otherworld Atlas at my LGS (as a official deal made by the store) =D.
Ons fetches will probably be reprinted. I would argue that they would reprint Ons before Zen fetches. Wizards has left the idea of enemy coloured decks to be harder to put together (MaRo has said this multiple times). Ons fetches would practically cut the demand of certain fetches in half, since decks that are running off-colour fetches now has a better alternative.
April 14, 2014 1:39 p.m.
I'd rather wait another Month and then sell my shocks for twice the value, but okay. I'm just a poor. sane person.
April 14, 2014 1:40 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #33
@TexasDice: That's not how secondary market economics works.
April 14, 2014 1:41 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #34
The problem is that MOST decks that are Top 8'ing bigger tournaments are the devotion decks and esper control. (most frequent top 8's). This would give multicolor decks a BIG upgrade and you would see a lot more of them doing well. Aggressive strategies THRIVE on decks running 2-3 colors and having to "stumble" due to lands coming into play tapped (see Temple of Silence for example). This keeps the multi color control decks in check and thus there is a good balance in the meta.
If fetches were ever in standard along with the RTR lands (see Watery Grave as an example) then mana fixing would be too easy and thus force aggro decks out of competitive tournaments for those couple of months. This allows control to take over the format and we have a lopsided meta game. (assuming aggro beats control, control beats midrange, midrange beats aggro)
They wouldn't do something to shake up the standard meta that drastically. More likely they would print the fetches again when the other "dual lands" don't have subtypes like the RTR/Ravnica shock lands do
April 14, 2014 1:44 p.m.
I believe our best bet to see these reprinted would be in a modern masters two. And I believe that wizards has come out and said that running modern masters as a limited print run was a mistake. Meaning that modern masters 2 could actually be used to help get people into modern, instead of something only serious players could get a hold of. And yes Maro has come out and said that fetches and shocks can not exist in standard together. So there is NO WAY fetches will be in m15.
April 14, 2014 1:44 p.m.
@smackjack I assume you are using MTGTop8? If you notice, they only divide the decks into Aggro, Control, and Combo. They lump midrange into aggro. I would call Mono-Black and Gruul Monsters midrange, not aggro. That number would probably go up to 80-90 if we saw fetches reprinted, even if only for 1/6 of a standard cycle.
And again, having about a 1/5 chance of getting a land for your rare in a set meant for people who are just getting into the game is a bad idea.
April 14, 2014 1:45 p.m.
Darkness1835 says... #37
Given the amount of time between Onslaught and Zendikar, I would say we have a few more years before fetches are reprinted.
April 14, 2014 9:18 p.m.
The simple fact of the matter is that having shocks AND fetches available at the same time will mandate running multi color decks to remain competetive.
The reason MBD and MUD are in tops right now is because they have one thing in common. They are mono color. Why is this relevant?
Simply put, when you have the ability to fix your mana to a ridiculous efficiency why wouldn't you?
Let me use an example laid out by other users. Lets look at Innistrad and RtR back when they were legal at the same time. With something like Hinterland Harbor if you had a Temple Garden , Overgrown Tomb , Hallowed Fountain , Watery Grave , Steam Vents , or Breeding Pool in play let's say turn one then on turn two you put down that Hinterland Harbor and it comes in untapped. You automatically have access to 3 colors of mana.
No take that and run it across every single color combo. It is unbalanced and makes mono color decks almost unplayable because they have couterparts running more colors and therefore with access to more cards and thus more options.
Now let's take what i just said and apply it to fetches and shocks.
Turn 1: play Misty Rainforest crack it and go get a Temple Garden
Turn 2: play Marsh Flats , crack it and go get a Godless Shrine
so it is now only the second turn of the game and you now have access to 4 colors of mana. in standard that is obscene.
Now to address another side of this. Cost.
with a modern staple like fetches being almost $100 for certain cards a reprint in a core set that also has shocks will make it almost impossible for new players to get into standard because it wil be to expensive to get the lands they need to run their decks.
just saying
April 14, 2014 10:50 p.m.
The Doctor says... #39
Guys what if he was paid by wizards to make a fake, then people find out it's a fake, just so that when they actually DO reprint fetches for m15, the prices aren't crazy inflated.
April 15, 2014 12:15 a.m.
Hellrazor_Dragoness says... #40
Okay, I can sort of prove that the fetch lands are not going to come out until after RTR is rotated. First look at RTR/Innistrad: White was super popular. Everyone loved Cloudshift . Innistrad rotates - White decks die with it. To attempt to keep the aggro g/w players and interest the white players from Innistrad, they give us Fleecemane Lion and Elspeth, Sun's Champion . But there still isn't that strong of a hold for white. So they gave us a bone in Born of the Gods with Karametra, God of Harvests an aggro player's land fixing. Now in Journey to Nyx they are adding in Godsend and Ajani, Mentor of Heroes . I fairly certain that if they did add in the fetches before the Ravanica rotation, Standard would break. Crumble. Return to Dust . The fact is, it just isn't smart to add in fetch lands into this next standard core set. It'll give red/green monsters the ability to splash white and Esper to splash green, all to give them the ability to use Ajani, Godsend, Karametra, etc. The only decks that won't be doing this is Devotion decks, and even then, you won't be seeing much dual lands in there to begin with. Wizards is trying to even the playing field between Aggro, Midrange, and Control, so then everyone can have a chance.
Finally to all of you who think that it will give people a want to play modern, think about this. The average decent Standard deck can be built with anywhere between $20-$100. Most Modern decks can range from budget ($10-$30) to super expensive ($600+). By adding in the fetches, even with the lowered pricing of them for being reprinted, the base Standard deck would rise up by at least $100. If a newcomer were to see how much money a Standard deck would cost them, and then realize that a Modern deck was even more expensive, I doubt they would get into the game at all. Modern is not something that should be promoted in Standard, but instead looked into by players who want to expand their horizons from the limited Standard play. Not to say that cards within Standard won't be great in Modern, but I think you get what I'm saying... (I hope.)
April 15, 2014 12:42 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #41
@Darkness1835: That's not really a legitimate metric in this scenario because so much has changed over time. Modern is a significant consideration for recent reprint practices.
April 15, 2014 1:44 a.m.
@Hellrazor_Dragoness: I'm not sure where you think you can find competitive Standard decks from $20-$100. That covers about half my land base. In all reality, you probably need $200-$300 to really compete in Standard. It can be done with less, but not easily.
April 15, 2014 3:31 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #43
Amen kmcree!
$20 covers 4 of my "scry lands" at most. $100 MAYBE covers half of my total lands (including shocks).
I guess if a monoblack aggro deck that didn't Mutavault or Pain Seer you could budget build one for that
April 15, 2014 8:09 a.m.
Pain seer is like $2?!
But yeh Mutavault alone is ridiculous.
Although I just built a modern deck for $150 that does pretty well.
April 15, 2014 11:16 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #45
Ok bad example on Pain Seer but you catch my meaning lol.
I think it's interesting that people want to "play competitive" magic but dont' want to put time/effort/$$$ into it.
April 15, 2014 11:22 a.m.
I dont know anyone that wants to play competitive without the time and effort. I do see the $ factor because it's an unfair restriction that's not based on anything to do with the mechanics of the game.
April 15, 2014 11:24 a.m.
harrydemon117 says... #47
My definition of "playing competitive" is playing in bigger tournaments for cash prizes and that defines a generic "Professional Player"...someone who is paid to play the game.
Just like with most careers, one must invest in themselves through schooling before they can become a "pro" at a normal job, so why would it not follow suit to do it anywhere else?
I agree that it sucks having to spend a couple hundred bucks to make a true competitive deck (talking Standard here), but I wouldn't expect to take down a TCGPlayer event unless I had put some money into it.
anyway this is getting off topic. The point is these fetch land "proofs" are fake and aren't being printed anytime soon lol
April 15, 2014 11:34 a.m.
Hellrazor_Dragoness says... #48
kmcree No, R/B Minotaurs are only $90-$100, Red Deck Wins are anywhere between $20-$30, maybe $70 if they run Stormbreath Dragon . I said decent not super competitive. I'm basing the numbers off of what I've built and seen. My point was that people come into the game wanting a simple and cheap past time, and with standard that is possible now, but wouldn't be if fetches came in.
April 15, 2014 11:40 a.m.
No, that logic doesn't follow. Entering tournaments doesn't make you a professional, because professionals are people who depend on something for their livelihoods. Just because you win some money doesn't make you a professional necessarily. Similarly the logic doesn't follow that you need to invest in a good deck to win money in a tournament. This is especially true in modern where cheap rogue decks regularly take people by surprise.
As an extension, you don't need to invest in schooling at all for a lot of careers. A lot of colleges will do just fine, and you can be state funded (although I don't live in the US, I know a lot of US students who paid 0 to go to college). Similarly in the UK we often say the key is 'who you know, not what you know'.
Yes, it does suck that cards are expensive but its the nature of economics, and I'm in favour of it because I like to play the collecting game. The further point is that in modern particularly there are plenty of cheap T2 decks that do fine anyway without massive investment because it's actually quite an interesting format. I have no sympathy for whingers about fetchland prices. 1) learn to capitalism, 2) play a deck without them.
You can win without money.
April 15, 2014 11:40 a.m.
The most unfortunate thing really is that money is essential to choice. If you have enough money you can build ANYTHING. If you don't have money you can only build a subset of decks. That's like a lesson in life though - money doesn't necessarily give success or happiness, but it does give you options to play the way you want.
mckin says... #2
also the wooded foothills is also fake. and looks much faker, although is listed at 269/269
April 14, 2014 10:52 a.m.