potential for cheating
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 29, 2014, 5:13 p.m. by superkamiguru7506
Am I the only one who thinks that manifest will cause problems at some point. Ok in the past we had to turn a morph face up when it left play to prove that it was in fact a morph now that's no longer really going to prove anything.
the thing with manifest is that we know the source, and we have a different token for manifest. So while I understand where you're coming from, you'll just have to be diligent about when your opponent flips a Manifested creature vs a Morphed creature.
December 29, 2014 5:18 p.m.
superkamiguru7506 says... #4
I didn't know they had a different token that changes things
December 29, 2014 5:21 p.m.
superkamiguru7506 says... #5
Till now I thought the first token was pointless
December 29, 2014 5:22 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
What tokens? Manifest doesn't use tokens.
The reminder text for manifest is
To manifest a card, put it onto the battlefield face down as a 2/2 creature. Turn it face up at any time for its mana cost if it's a creature card.
There's no potential for cheating here. Morph requires that you reveal the morphed cards to prove they have the morph ability. Manifest has no such requirement; an external ability is causing you to manifest the cards, and there's no requirement that a manifested card must be of a certain type.
December 29, 2014 5:34 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
At most, someone might try to manifest a card other than the one specified. But you can solve that problem by just watching your opponent.
December 29, 2014 5:36 p.m.
nighthawk101 says... #8
Manifest has a new reminder overlay similar to the one for Morph in KTK.
December 29, 2014 5:43 p.m.
I think he is referring to when someone manifests a creature card, then puts a morph down. But this can be solved by making them mark then appropriately or kepping then separated.
December 29, 2014 5:46 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
How players differentiate morphed cards from manifested cards is up to them. The rules (currently) do not prescribe any means of differentiating the two. It is up to players to remember the order in which they entered the battlefield as well as which ones are morphed and which ones are manifested. You can use any reasonable method to do so.
December 29, 2014 5:53 p.m.
Epochalyptik - They are talking about the reminder cards that we got in Kharns that we put over morphs. There is another reminder card coming in FRF that is for Manifest cards instead. This seems to be a way wizards came up with so that you do not have to hawk-eye your opponents morphs while they have face-down Manifest creatures on the field also.
December 29, 2014 5:54 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #12
Oh, I see what the token comments were about.
These aren't tokens. These are reminder cards, similar to the double-faced card reminder cards we were issued in Innistrad block. A token is a standalone permanent created by some effect. Tokens are not cards and are not represented by cards. These reminder cards are only there to represent actual cards and to help differentiate them from other cards.
And even if we don't get a reminder card for manifest (I don't see why we wouldn't), you'd only use the morph reminder card for morphed cards anyway.
December 29, 2014 5:57 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #13
Actually, as per Tabak, manifested cards do need to be revealed anytime they change zones.
tabakrules
zwomally asked:
This question is from andytheguitarist on Maro's Blog (in essence, not word for word). Do you need to reveal a Manifested card for zone changes or at end of game?
Yes, you reveal all face-down permanents as they change zones or as you leave the game.
December 29, 2014 5:57 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #14
there is nothing that makes it different from morph. you can still morph a manifested creature. the only difference is how the 2/2 got there. manifest takes it from the top of your library while morph comes from your hand.
December 29, 2014 5:58 p.m.
shinobigarth - The problem here is that a person could in theory "cast face down" a Land and then at the end of the game when revealing the Land, claim that he Manifested the card. This now reveals why Wizards printed the reminder cards for Morphs (and now for Manifested creatures). Now we do not have to worry about cheating as long as you and your opponent is diligent about using the reminder cards (or even just pieces of paper with 'Morph' or 'Manifest' on them).
Now you would have to ask a Judge about this but I do believe that if you think they just Morphed a non-morph card, you can call a judge over to look at the face-down card to assert that the card is in fact a morph.
December 29, 2014 6:08 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #16
@shinobigarth: To be precise, morph requires that you cast the card face-down as a 2/2 creature with no other characteristics, and manifest requires that you put a specified card (manifest itself does not require that this be the top card of your library; that bit is stipulated by the rest of the effect) directly onto the battlefield face-down as a 2/2 creature.
December 29, 2014 6:10 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #17
oh i see the issue. yeah just make sure you use the reminder cards and it should be fine. game shops should stock up on a quantity of them for use at tournaments.
December 29, 2014 6:15 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #18
If these reminder cards are distributed similarly to ISD-blocks check cards, stores should receive packs of them for distribution during Limited and other games.
December 29, 2014 6:18 p.m.
superkamiguru7506 says... #20
I didn't really think about it untilnow but earlier I referred to to morph reminder card as a token, so have a lot of people, why because it looks like a token, it really isn't that big of deal but shouldn't they have made it look more like a reminder card than a token
showda says... #2
Manifest isn't going to do anything new cheating wise. Non-creature spells can become creatures with it as well. It's only creatures that can be flipped up, which you'd be able to see whether or not it's a creature. Also, sorry if I misunderstood what you meant.
December 29, 2014 5:16 p.m.