Product Changes
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on May 16, 2016, 1:32 p.m. by GoldGhost012
So there are going to be a couple changes in regards to product when Kaladesh hits the market. There's a source article, but I'll tl;dr a bit.
Intro Decks are gone. Poof. Their replacement will be the new Planeswalker Deck.
There will be 2 Planeswalker Decks per set (which also implies there will be at least 2 Planeswalkers in every set!). The decks will be 60-card preconstructed with 2 booster packs for an MSRP of $14.99. They will be (usually) dual-colored Standard-legal decks tied mechanically to the block. Though there will be 5 cards that weren't in the block, they will be considered Standard-legal. In addition, the deck will contain:
- One Planeswalker, relevant to the block, at mythic rarity
- A rare, 2 copies, that do something and tutors the Planeswalker
- An uncommon, 3 copies, that are better when the Planeswalker is on the battlefield
- A common, 4 copies, tied thematically to the Planeswalker
- A common dual land, 4 copies, of the Oath of the Gatewatch/Shadows over Innistrad ETB tapped land (they want to keep these in Standard from now on)
- Only the 14 cards above will have new art, the rest will have the standard art from the block
Then, Fat Packs are getting changed as well. Their name will be changed to [Block name] Bundle, their MSRP will be $42.99 (previously $39.99), and there will be an addition tenth booster pack. The article doesn't say if there will be deck boxes like there have been in the past.
DarthSmitty says... #3
One thing that will interest competetive players (not me lol) is the price changes in said planeswalkers. If a specific planeswalker were to be printed in the deck and see standard or even modern play, the price would skyrocket. I wonder if wizards would just have this happen or just print mediocre planeswalkers for the deck.
May 16, 2016 1:53 p.m.
DarthSmitty says... #4
It would make sense for the deck boxes to be excluded from the bundle, but maybe they will include a deck box in the planeswalker deck with the art of the planeswalker. I think that would be pretty awesome.
May 16, 2016 1:56 p.m.
As long as I still get the fancy poster on the outside of my fatpack, we're all good.
May 16, 2016 2 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
I don't like the practice WOTC have been adopting where supplementary cards become part of the Standard rotation. I suppose they do it to avoid confusion and disappointment if a new player buys a deck and tries to compete in FNM and to allow them to still print new cards in those products.
I don't claim to have access to WOTC's market research, but I don't know that the intro decks (or whatever they used to be or whatever they will become) are all that significant. It would probably be better to make preconstructed decks with a slightly higher quality using the already-available cards than to try to shoehorn new cards into them and change the way legality works.
May 16, 2016 2:09 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
@DarthSmitty: Basic economics dictates that the availability of the planeswalker through the new product would keep prices from skyrocketing. It's the same with the Duel Decks planeswalkers. The price of the product might rise above MSRP while the secondary market capitalizes on demand, but the availability of those planeswalkers in a guaranteed medium (as opposed to the random chance of a booster pack) means that there's a certain degree of guaranteed supply to supplement whatever's already out there.
May 16, 2016 2:11 p.m.
Actually if the planeswalkers in the decks are good or bad they will tank in price because of the availability of them.
May 16, 2016 2:16 p.m.
In response to what Epoch said -
Ironic how they discontinued Event Decks without much notice a while back while they continue to come up with new more expensive ways to introduce people to Magic.
I miss the event decks. :(
May 16, 2016 2:32 p.m.
Well they did say that these planeswalkers in the decks are not going to be made for Standard play and the implication I got is that they won't be the ones in the set itself. It'd be as though Wizards has 3 planeswalkers in Kaladesh and two others in these planeswalker decks, feasibly Gatewatch planeswalkers. So for example we could get a Gideon & Chandra deck for Kaladesh and a Saheeli Ri deck for Aether Revolt since she will be introduced in Kaladesh.
May 16, 2016 3:03 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #11
According to Blake Rasmussen's twitter, the planeswalkers included in the planeswalker decks will not be in the regular expansions as well. Apparently, they are unique to those products. Wizards has confirmed that the new cards from those decks will be standard legal.
May 16, 2016 3:18 p.m.
Of note, being legal for Standard and being made for Standard are two very different things. E.g. Archangel Avacyn Flip was made for Standard while Unruly Mob is legal for Standard but not made for it.
May 16, 2016 3:25 p.m.
Epochalyptik: about the higher quality precons: I think that event decks filled that empty slot. I loved event decks because it was a good way to get good standard legal cards. I really dont expect these Planeswalker decks to be any better than intro packs were before. in fact, I think that cards that care about a certain card like the 2 rares and the 3 uncommons that care about a certain cards are a trap for new players that may want to get into magic or standard.
May 16, 2016 4:31 p.m.
Set Symbols:
Nissa Vs. Ob Nixilis: 
Kaladesh: 
Commander 2016: 
Planechase Anthology: 
Aether Revolt: 
Loving the symbols on all parts. Wheres our Eldritch Moon Symbol Wizards???
May 16, 2016 4:42 p.m.
Will the Planeswalker in the deck be foil or not? It's a burning question for me right now. Personally, I hope it isn't but if they are...I'll live, I guess.
Either way, I will definitely pick up Chandra's, considering my penchant for 
EDH these days.
May 16, 2016 4:58 p.m.
miracleHat says... #16
I dislike how wizards is focusing the game around planeswalkers so much now. It weakens the abilities, flavor, and strengths of the other card and the potential for powerful interactions from the other non-planeswalker cards. It warps the game in a way that is not healthy for the game...
Also: who will want to call the Fatpacks "Bundles" now... None of the older players I would assume...
May 16, 2016 5:38 p.m.
Im just gonna keep calling them fat packs, just like I still call the magic story Uncharted Realms
May 16, 2016 5:39 p.m.
Well from the look of the article one if the walker decks is gonna be chandra. Let's just hope it's the new one
May 16, 2016 6:28 p.m.
I hate to break it to you but...
There will be 2 new Chandras: One in Kaladesh, and one in the decks as its face card. Both are all-new.
May 16, 2016 7:39 p.m.
Ownagemaster says... #21
I like that they're keeping the latest tapland cycle in standard for the foreseeable future.
May 16, 2016 7:59 p.m.
"Four copies of a common flavored to the Planeswalker:At common, we have a basic staple effectone the Planeswalker would cast most often, with art showing them casting it. There will be four copies of this card in the deck."
Jace and Counterspell PLEASE GOD PLEASE
May 16, 2016 11:17 p.m.
Ownagemaster says... #24
No way they'll reprint Counterspell like that. They won't put something that experienced players will want to snap up these decks up. Unless flavor.
May 16, 2016 11:32 p.m.
That, and they made Counterspell an uncommon with Tempest Remastered anyway (I mean, the rarity of it has flip-flopped in the past, but I think this solidifies it at uncommon). Oh well.
May 16, 2016 11:38 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #26
Ownagemaster Why wouldn't they, they want them to sell regardless of who's buying them.
May 16, 2016 11:42 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #27
I like this. Less for the junk mythic Planeswalkers, and more for the common cycles that tie in to the planeswalkers. I was feeling like the old core set cycles were a sweet thing, but then it started getting messy. People could legitimately build ultra casual Planeswalker themed decks now. Of course we'll have to wait years for the Liliana one to come out...
May 17, 2016 12:28 a.m.
10/10 for the Planeswalker deck imo. Gives new players a great experience. They get a functional deck, with 60 cards and land and its designed to work well while showcasing new standard mechanics.
It gives new players a planeswalker, the cool mythic rare card that is awesome to play with, and the deck actually lets them get it out and use it! Not only this but it also comes with 2 boosters so you can either swap in a new card or just get to experience the thrill. its all in all a great, REAL, introductory device. It creates hype and is playable and cheap. Better still if you buy another booster with it then for <$20 you get to draft AND have a neat precon deck!
May 17, 2016 12:41 a.m.
bennybubbles says... #29
I'm definitely going to get one of the Planeswalker decks for my brother, probably the Chandra one because he loves her, and depending on how good (flavourful/interesting/splashy) they are, I might even get one myself.
May 17, 2016 3:39 a.m.
I'm rather sceptical of the planeswalker decks. Here's what the actual changes to the intro packs are:
- Planeswalker is added
- The two rares are now centred around said planeswalker
- There will be uncommons and commons centred around it.
- The aforementioned cards are all part of the 5 cards that are standard legal, but not from a standard set.
- The relevant uncommon duals will always be reprinted in this product
Pros:- Planeswalkers are powerful. Usually.
Planeswalkers are good marketing tools to grab the attention of potential new players.
Toolboxing for said planeswalker is also pretty useful.
2 copies of this deck will give you full playsets of the rare, uncommon and common, plus an additional walker (ie total of 2), and 4 packs.
Cons:- Power of planeswalker will be/has to be lacklustre/mediocre in power so that existing players don't go crazy for the cards, and so that they don't warp standard #theory
Therefore the cards centred around planeswalker will also be lacklustre as a result of their interaction with said planeswalker. In other words, having cards centred around the planeswalker makes the entire deck based on the power level of the walker.
Teaches newbies that centring your deck around a specific walker, and that including planeswalkers, is vital to a strategy.(most decks don't tend to include them unless they provide back breaking advantage eg: Karn Liberated, Liliana of the Veil, Jace the Mind Sculptor)
MTG doesn't include much tutoring/toolboxing, so creating a strategy like this might not be beneficial for the newbies development as a player.
May 17, 2016 7:49 a.m.
Wizards are going to corner themselves into printing trashy rares that tutor for planeswalkers that weren't designed for constructed play. Because if they keep doing this they have to keep printing rares that tutor for PWS.
So essentially they're wasting 2 mythic slots and 2 rare slots per set on cards that probably won't be any good.
Comet Storm anyone?
May 17, 2016 8:01 a.m.
ChiefBell - Except for the fact that the new cards in the Planeswalker deck won't be in the appropriate set. The Chandra in the deck won't be the Chandra we see in Kaladesh. Similarly, the tutor and other cards won't be in Kaladesh. So it's not Wizards throwing away 2 mythic & rare slots for "trashy rares", it's them making cards outside of the set that happen to be in Standard.
May 17, 2016 10:06 a.m.
ChiefBell Not entirely my point there, but we have evidence in the past where, because Wizards tacked on an additional mechanic, they've upped the cmc. Scry is possibly the worst offender, where the vast majority of new cards with scry, tended to be more expensive, simply for having scry. eg: Lightning Javelin.
I'm just saying that they're not exactly going to put Dark Petition style cards in every deck (ie: do this amazing thing, then add planeswalker). Whilst we could expect to get Lightning Bolt + add planeswalker, but the cost might be 4-6, at sorcery for red; Or for Blue, it might be Counterspell + add PW, at 4-7, Instant (obv).
We might instead get Geistflame (no flashback) + add pw at 3-5, or Force Spike + add PW at 3-5.
And then because they reference the specific planeswalker, the planeswalker itself has to be at least playable, or the tutor effect is then worthless and you're paying 3 for a ping/force spike/insert-on-colour effect.
So regarding the planeswalker, the reason I'm sceptical, is because the complexity level has to be simple enough for new players to understand, AND not be too powerful so that existing players don't go wild and thus leaving new players unable to find them. So for these two reasons, I find myself doubting their success.
But I really do hope I'm wrong.
May 17, 2016 10:26 a.m.
Well, first, keep in mind that if you get Lightning Bolt + look for Chandra in your deck and add it to your hand for 4, it can be any Chandra that is legal in the format you are playing, which is good when you go outside of the borders of the decks themselves, giving the decks more traction with other players.
For the second point, you just do not need to make the PW overly powerful and you are golden; ie Jace, Unraveler of Secrets versus Ob Nixilis Reignited.
May 17, 2016 10:34 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #36
The tutor card will only be able to search for the Planeswalker that was released with the deck.
May 17, 2016 10:37 a.m.
My bad on that, misread it - then this rare seems too narrow and hard to keep interesting every single time.
May 17, 2016 10:41 a.m.
GoldGhost012 is right. It's not like Haven of the Spirit Dragon which can grab any Ugin planeswalker card, but closer to a card that says "Go grab Chandra, Flamecaller from wherever she is."
May 17, 2016 10:45 a.m.
So, they are calling 'Fat Packs' 'Bundles'... adding 1 booster pack, and charging more...?
Am I missing something, or is that just a money grab?
May 17, 2016 11:05 a.m.
JWiley129 - link to the part where it explicitly states these won't be cards from the standard set. As far as I can tell it just says something along the lines of them being relevant to the block. No more and no less. They could just print more trashy planeswalkers in standard and put them in these precons, or they could print entirely separate PWs. I haven't read anywhere evidence to suggest they'd go for the more long winded solution.
May 17, 2016 11:11 a.m.
Well, they are changing the name and adding one booster for the price of one booster. Seems fair enough.
May 17, 2016 11:13 a.m.
But like I am at work and reading quickly so I may have missed it.
May 17, 2016 11:15 a.m.
ChiefBell - It's this paragraph right here about halfway down:
"The other big difference about Planeswalker Decks is that there's going to be five cards in each that won't be found in the expansion, but that will be considered connected to that block for Standard legality (meaning Planeswalker Decks will be playable in Standard)."
May 17, 2016 11:19 a.m.
Oh yeah I read that. Is it definitely referring to the PW itself though?
May 17, 2016 11:26 a.m.
It then lists the 5 cards starting with the planeswalker, then the rare that tutors for it, then the uncommon, then the common, and finally the dual land.
According to my math, which should be correct considering I have a B.S. in Mathematics and an Erdos number of 4, that adds up to 5 cards.
May 17, 2016 11:28 a.m. Edited.
It's going to be the same concept as what they did with Mahamoti Djinn and friends in the Intro Decks.
Standard legal.
Barely seen.
Nobody cares enough.
May 17, 2016 11:47 a.m.
JWiley129 - Cool. That's fine. I just didn't really get full access on my phone.
May 17, 2016 1:34 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #48
Exactly, just more unplayable cards to fall into obscurity but fun, collectable and character building for new players and vorthos alike. Theoretically.
May 17, 2016 2:30 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #49
miracleHat, I completely agree; WotC has been focusing far too heavily on planeswalkers ever since they became a card type, to the point that they are now overshadowing non-planeswalker characters, which I severely dislike. Hopefully, they shall still be giving focus to legendary creatures in future sets.
May 17, 2016 2:53 p.m.
While EDH laughs at the direction WOTC is taking here, I do agree that the focus on Planeswalkers is becoming too much. I mean, geez, legendary creatures can fulfill the same role as they could with regards to flavor.
Crayfish says... #2
It is interesting that you will be able to get a planeswalker more easily now, and the fact that the deck seems built around that walker is a tad strange. Almost like a commander deck (Lieutenant anyone?)
The 5 "standard legal but not part of the block" cards is also a tad strange. I just can't wait to see how these turn out!
May 16, 2016 1:43 p.m.