Radiant Fountain (M15)
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 1, 2014, 3:11 a.m. by WizardInTheWoods
Radiant Fountain, will it be playable in standard?
CommanderOfBolas says... #3
maybe in a control deck, but its hard to say without knowing what else is in the set.
June 1, 2014 3:18 a.m.
It enters untapped and a colorless mana? This is almost strictly better than a basic land. It's definitely going to make more of an impact than Cathedral of War did.
June 1, 2014 3:27 a.m.
Seraphicate says... #5
Can't tell if BLEATH is being sarcastic or not ._.
I think I liked Cathedral of War better
June 1, 2014 3:36 a.m.
In my personal experience, I've never seen Cathedral of War used.
June 1, 2014 3:38 a.m.
You can't compare this to Cathedral of War as they have completely opposite jobs.
This will see play. If you're playing one or two colors and your deck isn't hyper-aggressive, this is a two-of auto-include.
Gaining life isn't a hugely important part of a game in most cases, but gaining life against a burn deck is basically countering a burn spell. This land counters Shock for free; that has to count for something.
June 1, 2014 4:01 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #8
Gaining a small amount of life at the expense of a more consistent mana base will never be playable. Ever.
Playing your spells on curve > Gaining life
People talk about this countering a shock land, so while this is in the same format as shocks it is also in the same standard as such spells like Obzedat, Jarad, Sphinx's Revelation, Supreme Verdict, Nightveil Spectre, Boros Reckoner. These are all highly played cards in standard that are extremely color intensive. Gaining two life is infinitely worse than being able to cast these. For reference, people play Guildgates, which are awful, just to cast their spells. They will not play a land that makes it even more difficult.
When the multicolor block rotates, I still doubt this will be played.
June 1, 2014 4:17 a.m.
lol @ thinking someone would play these in a Reckoner deck.
Clearly, these are for monocolor and slower two-color decks.
June 1, 2014 4:19 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #10
I could see this in an Izzet Control deck. Izzet can afford to run a few colorless mana sources, and life is a very important resource for a control deck
June 1, 2014 4:36 a.m.
TurboFagoot says... #11
My point is, Zandl, that right now those decks aren't very viable. All the mono color decks are making use of the devotion mechanic to some degree, leading to spells like Reckoner. Even the one's that splash still play color intensive spells.
I think you're vastly overstating the value of gaining 2 life, or understating the cost of playing a colorless land. Mutavault is played so much because it is an insanely powerful card, but it is not something that has no opportunity cost. Even monocolor, four Mutavault decks have those only Mutavault draws. The only reason those draws are put up with is because Mutavault is so powerful.
This card is not Mutavault. The positive of two life does not offset the opportunity cost of playing a colorless land in any quantity.
Why do I post on TO no one has any idea how to play this game.
June 1, 2014 5 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #12
I think that it will be heavily aimed at casual players or lifegain specific decks (maybe an Archangel of Thune type effect in M15) but it will not see play in aggro and possibly in mono-color control, probably not 2c and definitely not 3c.
June 1, 2014 6:30 a.m.
How deep is the manabase in Soul Sisters? I've seen one or two copies of Kabira Crossroads in that archetype before, would Radiant Fountain be better or worse?
June 1, 2014 6:56 a.m.
It'll have a place in monocoloured decks and perhaps, questionably, two colour decks. Really, it depends on what duals we get in the next set and how reliable the fixing is. The more reliable the fixing, the safer it is to screw around with unreliable lands.
June 1, 2014 7:25 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #15
This will see play in mono coloured decks as long as those deck don't have mana intensive cards. (needs 1B/2B not BBB/BB)
June 1, 2014 7:38 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #16
Might even see play in Multi-coloured decks as a counter-weight to Mana Confluence .
June 1, 2014 7:39 a.m.
Hjaltrohir says... #17
To be honest though, it really isn't that amazing. It might see some play but it would only be a one or two of and only in some decks.
June 1, 2014 8:25 a.m.
Nothing game-breaking, but could definitely be a handy little thing in the mono-Midrange toolbox.
June 1, 2014 9:16 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #20
I agree with TurboFagoot,
1) 2 life is not worth the utility land slot & 2) I currently run 3 Mutavault in a 2 color deck. The colorless can be such a set back at times & my most mana intense spells are either double black & double green no triple stamps. I wouldn't bother to run Mutavault if it wasn't meta forced.
June 1, 2014 10:14 a.m.
deathtouch_roadrunner says... #21
All it will take is a couple more things that synergize with lifegain. Start with 4 of these and a Path of Bravery ...
June 1, 2014 10:23 a.m.
Rather plainly, it's not Mutavault . Did you know this land will be Standard after rotation, though? It's true!
"The positive of two life does not offset the opportunity cost of playing a colorless land in any quantity."
False. Theorizing time.
When you aren't playing Reckoner and Nightveil, adding one copy of a colorless-producing land to a mono-color deck couldn't possibly hurt you in any way imaginable (unless your two-drops are insanely greedy, at which point you'd probably be screwed anyways since you only have two lands). Adding two would be just as good, really, with only a very slim chance to get both early and not see your basics/duals.
I'm not overestimating gaining 2 life; I'm pointing out that gaining 2 life for free when it has virtually zero drawbacks for your deck is just good deck-building knowledge.
Encroaching Wastes is a card that would be seeing a lot more play if it weren't for Mutavault being better and the extremely greedy RTR cards. Even though there aren't many nonbasics aside from dual-lands to blow up, it is pure value and, as a 1-of, has literally zero drawbacks in certain decks.
Did I say "Playset in everything," TurboFagoot? Did I say "Better than Vault"? Of course not. Mutavault is one of the best nonbasic lands ever printed. Will this one be as popular? No, obviously. Will this be used? Yes, as I mentioned above.
June 1, 2014 11:51 a.m.
yeah, i think it'll be used in control and mono-colored decks.probably not in most multi-color decks, because of the "colorless mana" factor.
June 1, 2014 1:26 p.m.
I could see it in the mono-black splash decks that run Lifebane Zombie rather than Nightveil Specter , but only if they don't have the cash for Mutavault .
June 1, 2014 2:21 p.m.
I, uhh, was just trying to enunciate my point more clearly. That's all.
June 1, 2014 2:52 p.m.
Decks that are not only 1 color, but also largely colorless may make some use of it.
Tron or Affinity could make some use against aggro, as a 2 of in Sideboard... though I'm not that knowledgable of Modern, so I could easily be off on this. It just seems logical that if you commonly use doorless, life-gain for free can come in handy against certain match-ups.
Soul Sisters might see it as a 2 of in main board, simply because life gain makes a huge difference in that deck.
...My first thought was of EDH... but then realized that 2 life makes little difference.
A few decks, like Orlo or Trostani life-gain decks may use it, but it won't be an EDH staple.
June 2, 2014 10:18 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #30
This essentially sets your starting life total to 24. I would definitely play with 2 of these in any non-three color deck I make. I can only assume that, aside from its first 3 months of infancy, this thing will not be competing in decks that are trying to cast BBGG creatures or whatever. The colorless mana is fine, and i'll take the higher life total in any race.
Definitely not a 4 of though, at that point its polluting your mana base a bit too much. And for the guys that are saying that this card is trash; that it dilutes your mana base to the point that you instantly lose every game before you sit at the table, When was the last time you won a pro-tour? You're taking deck building principles way too seriously. Every list has a little wiggle room for utility. Unless it's eggs or some other 40 piece combo deck. Even in Eggs though, this is playable.
June 2, 2014 1:01 p.m.
This is exactly what I'm saying. Most decks out there could spare even just one slot for this and tree would be no discernible difference in how the deck plays. This will see play in the future. Ill just come back to this thread after rotation so I can say "I told you so."
June 2, 2014 1:46 p.m.
I just think it's pretty crazy how such a simple card can make for almost two pages of arguing.
June 2, 2014 2:46 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #33
June 2, 2014 2:53 p.m.
I wouldn't go so far as to say we've been arguing; this has been a lively debate.
Of course, it's always heated when TurboFagoot is around.
June 2, 2014 3:18 p.m.
Technically, Island is the strongest card in the game since it lets you play the strongest spells in the game.
June 2, 2014 3:32 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #37
I'll agree, i'm much more afraid of two untapped Island at the end of a turn than, say, two untapped Forest .
June 2, 2014 3:38 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #39
As zandl said, this is effectively a 2-for-one against (some) burn decks (I could link to a hundred different articles on the Philosophy of Fire, but I can't be bothered. Google it). However, the decks that want this effect may find themselves not wanting to sacrifice the ability to cast multicoloured spells reliably, for example, the Boros Reckoner decks everyone's mentioned.
June 2, 2014 3:44 p.m.
A single Island allows you to play Ancestral Recall .
Some people argue that Mox Sapphire is better than Island .... but to them, I have one question "How many Mox Sapphire can you have in your deck?"
....That's right, you can have ANY NUMBER of Islands... and they only get better as you play more. Think about that... on can cast Ancestral Recall ... and MORE is BETTER???
- I told you not to get me started! :)
June 2, 2014 3:46 p.m.
Mox Sapphire is technically only good if you intentionally don't want lands or alongside a land (okay, an Island ), so an Island is what makes Mox Sapphire good.
June 2, 2014 3:48 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #42
I would argue that they're on about the same level. It's much easier to untap an artifact indefinitely through various means than it is to untap an island as many times. However, there is also the 4x Vs 40x argument in favor of islands.
However, I believe that the real power here is behind the Snow-Covered Island .
June 2, 2014 3:54 p.m.
Snow-Covered Island s are the reason people can play Storm Crow , one of the most powerful creatures in the game.
That land should be banned.
June 4, 2014 7:09 a.m.
If you don't think this card is at least somewhat decent, then you just don't get it.
June 4, 2014 7:53 p.m.
This card is really pretty good. There's very little reason to not run a few copies. Might be sufficient irritation to slow down burn, depending on the colour saturation of the decks in standard.
Remember you can't counter lands and most spells have colourless in the cost. A vast majority of spells only need one coloured mana, so really....... play this card.
June 4, 2014 8:08 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #47
I gain 2 life once and taps for 1 colorless? Yeah, I don't see any reason to run this except if you have something that interacts with the lifegain. Maybe something to run in mono color. I'm also looking at this from a modern-player perspective, so maybe that has something to do with why I don't see this as being playable.
June 4, 2014 8:09 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #49
I guess that's why I think this card is shit lol sorry if my opinion upsets anyone
June 4, 2014 8:16 p.m.
Although an interesting point is that this card is a pain again certain decks in modern like say, goblins or burn or sligh variants. Being able to gain life for free with no repercussion could upset the balance and give you that one turn you need to... I don't know swing for the win with Goyf or whatever.
Osang says... #2
Lifegain is essentially a weak part of Magic altogether. It just gives you an extra resource that isn't as important as the space it takes in your deck for higher impact cards.
June 1, 2014 3:18 a.m.