Rules Changes
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on May 18, 2015, 6:47 p.m. by kameenook
Magic is an evolving game, and since its inception some rules have to be clarified or redone entirely to ensure the game works properly. I remember when Copperhoof Vorrac was a force to be reckoned with at the kitchen table as you either had to grow the Vorrac or take mana burn from your lands. Mana burn and damage on the stack may still cause fury in some players.
What rules changes, if any, do you Anticipate in the future?
General thoughts on rules changes?
Epochalyptik thanks, I was looking for a rules forum, and completely overlooked that one.
May 18, 2015 6:55 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #5
I'm not really anticipating any rule changes but I would like mana burn to come back because it adds a bit more complexity to the game.
May 18, 2015 7:06 p.m.
At my first fnm when getting back into mtg, I was laughed at for worrying about mana burn. One of the kids there had NO clue what I was even talking about.. I kind of agree with WovenNebula, it completely changes some aspects of the game.. maybe there could be a format where it is still a thing, idk.
As for rule changes, it's not a huge deal but making the reminder text that has hybrid mana symbols count against your commander's identity would seem to make sense to me. Other than that or similar little things I think mtg is pretty good as is :)
May 18, 2015 7:29 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
I like to think that some day, the legend rule and planeswalker uniqueness rule might be reverted to their previous formulation. It's completely nonsensical, flavorwise, to allow multiple copies of a legendary permanent to exist, and it takes away one of the complexities of the game.
May 18, 2015 7:40 p.m.
@Panda213 Wizards does not handle the rules that govern commander or commander identity. I'm assuming your referring to the extort mechanic, but I think it should be pointed out that if extort were printed as a mechanic again that the reminder text wouldn't be printed on there with it. So the problem that your perceiving technically would only exist on cards printed in the first set extort was printed in and would be a non issue on any subsequent sets that had the extort mechanic. That means extort would effect the color identity of some cards but not the color identity of others, which would make little sense since the mechanic functions the same way regardless of what card it's printed on.
May 18, 2015 7:47 p.m.
Necrohellion says... #10
Ah the old legend rule, where Jace Beleren read: "Destroy Target Jace, the Mind Sculptor"
In all seriousness however I would like it if the legend rule was reverted to its previous iteration
May 18, 2015 7:49 p.m.
As a frequent FNM judge, I would point to protection as being the most likely rule/mechanic to be changed. For as simple as it sounds, it's one of the least intuitive mechanics to a wide spectrum of players.
May 18, 2015 7:50 p.m. Edited.
MagicalHacker says... #12
Specific to commander:
The way tuck gets around the command zone replacement effect#DreamComeTrue- Adding "mentioning specific basic land type" to the color identity of a land (doubt it will happen though cause it's complicated, but being able to run Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth and Arid Mesa in an azorius deck feels weird)
- Commander damage set to 40, because
- Allowing planeswalkers to be commanders (pros and cons for sure)
Related to general magic:
- Adding a way to set turn direction at the beginning of a multiplayer game rather than causing it to always be clockwise
- Changing the number allowed in a sideboard to 20, because I like numbers divisible by four in a game where each card's max is four
- Errata-ing coin flip cards to roll dice, because almost no one brings coins with them to a game AND the coin gets flipped incorrectly/awkwardly way too often
Rules I hope aren't changed:
- See first point
- Poison counters in commander
- Planeswalker uniqueness and legend rule, because flavor-wise it makes more sense according to the understanding that we are bringing memories to life rather than summoning actual beings (also explains why you can have Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and Sidisi, Undead Vizier simultaneously)
(Really, I just like change when it opens up the possibility of more decks getting a foot in the door and not being oppressed by decks that are supported too much, if that makes sense.)
May 18, 2015 8:13 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #13
Also, I must agree with you Slycne, specifically adding "cannot be moved from the battlefield by cards with this quality" because so many people I've played with originally though that Blood Baron of Vizkopa can't be killed by a card like Supreme Verdict, since it has pro-white.
May 18, 2015 8:16 p.m.
abenz419 putting a b/w mechanic in a edh deck that doesn't run one of those colors is illegal in any other instance but because of some dumb rule about reminder text it's ok, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Again, it's really not that big of a deal.. just something that's irked me. Thanks for the reminder that wotc doesn't mess with edh, I always forget that for some reason.
May 18, 2015 8:40 p.m.
FreddyFlash311 says... #15
I missed mana burn when I came back too. Talk about a major twist.
I honestly do not understand why people had problems with Banding. I was floored when I read that. It's something I always enjoyed back when, but whatever.
And seriously, is the timing aspect of Interrupts vs Instants really that difficult? Before there was The Stack the way we'd keep track of the more complex interactions were to make something similar but to have kind of a tiered approach to it. It sounds complex to write it out but come on, I was 15 when I learned the game, it really wasn't that difficult to do it right. LIFO, Interrupts had a higher priority level. Anywho...
May 18, 2015 8:47 p.m.
I totally agree with Epoch. I hate it so much. Why should my opponent be able to drop a Karn Liberated and exile my copy of him? That's garbage.
May 18, 2015 8:49 p.m.
SimicPower says... #17
The reason changing the commander reminder text rule would be so problematic is because it would act strange if wizards printed another card with extort that didn't have enough space on the card for the reminder text, making the card legal in monocolored.
Additionally, FTV: Exiled Trinisphere would only be playable in black, which is very counterintuitive.
With that in mind, I still wouldn't mind if they changed it.
As for chaining rules, one rule I had not heard about until recently, and almost everyone I have asked had no clue it existed was that creatures regain "summoning sickness" when someone gains control of them. That one doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
May 18, 2015 8:52 p.m.
SimicPower says... #18
The legend rule is flavorfully awful either way. The way it is now, there is the obvious problem of two of the same creature on the battlefield at the same time. In the old way, Clone is suddenly a super useful non-targeting killspell against legendary creatures. I used to prefer the new way, but recently I have played commander against a lot more more Narset decks, and would like to have access to more ways around hexproof.
May 18, 2015 8:56 p.m.
I expect EDH to eventually do something to keep tutoring from stopping the game. I'm not sure that a hard rule like "tutoring triggers your end-step" is a good one, but this is one of the major reasons people finger EDH as a slow format. At my LSG players will often tutor blindly into decks, not having a clue what they're fishing for, and if you do this at the beginning of your initial main phase, it makes your turn last forever. In some cases this literally doubles the length of time a game takes.
I make it a point to tutor right before my end-step so I can pass turn while I'm thumbing through my library. It's technically an abuse of the rules, but no one has ever complained, either.
May 18, 2015 9:44 p.m.
SimicPower says... #20
Wizards is shifting away from printing efficient tutors, so tutors shouldn't get much more broken than they are now in EDH.
May 18, 2015 9:54 p.m.
I would like to remind everyone talking about Extort that Reminder text is not "technically" on the card. Reminder text is just that, a reminder. The same way that every card with Flying, Reach, Deathtouch, and every other static ability may not have reminder text. Reminder text does not attribute to the "Color Identity" of a card. Crypt Ghast is a mono black card. Anything within () does not attribute to color identity.
Now cards like Yasova Dragonclaw read hybrid U/R in the text and cost G have a color identity of RUG and thus technically can only be run in commander decks running those colors and/or be the commander for those decks.
May 18, 2015 10:53 p.m.
@Panda213 Your missing something. Extort is an Orzhov mechanic so if your not playing black or white and have a creature with extort then you've done something wrong or stolen your opponents creature. In which case if you stole it from your opponent, whenever you cast a spell extort will trigger but you'll be unable to pay the cost because it requires 
/
. Like I said before if they changed the ruling to include reminder text then current extort cards would be effected because the hybrid mana symbol in the reminder text but future ones would not because the reminder text wouldn't be on those and therefore the hybrid symbols wouldn't either.
If they changed the rule, you'd have white cards with extort that couldn't be included in a mono white deck because the reminder text would show the mana symbol. But future white cards with extort would be allowed in those same mono white decks because there is no reminder text even though extort would still function the same way and be payable with either or mana. If anything, that's counter intuitive and makes no sense, but that's how it would work if they changed the color identity rules to include reminder text.
May 18, 2015 11:17 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #23
I anticipate regenerate and protection being either changed (unlikely) or replaced (more likely) as mechanics. They're both awkward and do weird, unintuitive things. Regenerate taps your creature (and new players are often confused about whether the creature actually ends up dying). protection, again, unintuitively allows board wipes to hit. I think removing already-attached enchantments is weird. I also have seen a lot of newer players not realize that a creature with protection from white can block a white creature.
I would like to see but doubt we'll get a return to shroud. Haivng shroud and hexproof allows different types of creatures to exist on both, and I think having both will make people play shroud better (seeing that there's two separate abilities will have people realize there's a difference, they can target one and they can't target the other)
May 18, 2015 11:23 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #24
SimicPower I find it strange that your group had no idea about summoning sickness. To me that is one of the basics. On the other hand, every group does that when they learn to play. I had quite a few things that we would do wrong when we started. Protection, and trample was done wrong, we did not play with multi blockers, and lots of wrong things.
Something I would like to see changed is the legendary rule. I used to use clones like nothing else in EDH till that was changed. They made great kill spells. I guess most of what I would want changed would revert things back to old rules. Not sure if I actually want that or not. They make good changes, and for good reasons.
I think the rules are streamlined, and in a great place right now.
I do feel that regeneration is a little off now that damage does not stack, and that could be tweaked a little.
May 18, 2015 11:44 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #25
Stepped away for a sec before I hit post lol, got ninja'ed. Nice call.
May 18, 2015 11:45 p.m.
Re: "Adding a way to set turn direction at the beginning of a multiplayer game rather than causing it to always be clockwise"
- You could simply have people change their seating order to make the turn order go in the other direction.
Re: "Errata-ing coin flip cards to roll dice, because almost no one brings coins with them to a game AND the coin gets flipped incorrectly/awkwardly way too often"
- The rules for coin flipping do say you can use any randomizing technique, so long as it is a true 50-50 chance. - Dice rolling as odds/even works, as does dice rolling with "top half, bottom half".
Relevant Rule: "705.3. A coin used in a flip must be a two-sided object with easily distinguished sides and equal likelihood that either side lands face up. If the coin that's being flipped doesn't have an obvious "heads" or "tails," designate one side to be "heads," and the other side to be "tails." Other methods of randomization may be substituted for flipping a coin as long as there are two possible outcomes of equal likelihood and all players agree to the substitution. For example, the player may roll an even-sided die and call "odds" or "evens," or roll an even-sided die and designate that "odds" means "heads" and "evens" means "tails."
If I go to role a die instead of a coin flip, and my opponent does not allow it... I simply take a nickel, and flip it behind a counter or across the room... something where it's obviously going to be a hassle to get the result. - Then I ask if he/she wants me to flip a coin or roll a die next time.
May 19, 2015 8:10 a.m.
Regarding summoning sickness, it's not an official term, but rather very common lingo. A creature has "summoning sickness" if it has not been controlled continuously since its controller's last upkeep.
May 19, 2015 8:53 a.m.
SimicPower says... #28
Didgeridooda: We knew about summoning sickness, we just thought it was exclusive to entering the battlefield.
May 19, 2015 1:23 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #29
That is what I meant. I have come across that misunderstanding alot recently, so it is not just you guys. It is just one of the things that my group actually did correct. We played a ton of controlly things.
May 19, 2015 4:05 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #30
Yeah those two suggestions are more about convenience actually. Moving seats is hard xD
May 19, 2015 5:02 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #32
I'd love to see mana burn back. Especially with things like Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, it makes using it into an actual decision, rather than just counting mana symbols.
If we're going to change the legendary rule, I'd love to see it include different names of legends as well. No idea how it would work rules-wise (it wouldn't) but it would make a lot of flavour sense.
Also, it'll never happen, but errataing all interrupts to be instants with split second would make my Old Fogey heart go pitter patter.
May 19, 2015 6:47 p.m.
There's never been a rule that I don't like as far as actually playing the game is concerned.
I do wish however that cutting an opponent's deck was either not allowed or mandatory.
Also I wish it were mandatory for players without speach or language difficulties to announce priority and phase passing.
Perhaps make this only mandatory for those who have competed in a specific number of tournaments. It's just sad to see players rush through things hoping to put others on tilt or bend rules only when it suits them, especially when they've got better cards and more experience.
To many times people have slammed down a Tarmogoyf and before I can even say anything or tap my lands to respond they say "pass turn". I have to say "Wait" and explain that I am going to counter their creature and then they are all "but we're in the end step, it's to late". This my friends, is not how MTG is played.
May 20, 2015 3:25 a.m.
If someone tried that with me, I would explain that if we are somehow in the end-step before Tarmogoyf resolved (because they never passed priority), then Tarmogoyf must be exiled... just like what would happen if someone activated Sundial of the Infinite... This would save you the need to cast the counter spell.
May 20, 2015 7:41 a.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #35
that's what I started doing Rayenous. Now they know to ask about counterspells.
Anyway, I want damage to go back on the stack. It made much more sense that way, and some really great cards could be brought back. Like Bottle Gnomes or Mogg Fanatic. I also want mana burn to come back because it adds a very interesting aspect to the game.
May 20, 2015 2:47 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #36
"Snow" and "Legendary" should pump Goyf like "Tribal" does. Jus' sayin'.
May 20, 2015 6:25 p.m.
SimicPower says... #37
Yeah, because Goyf is incredibly underpowered and needs the extra pump.
May 20, 2015 6:51 p.m.
SimicPower says... #39
Tribal is an odd case. Basically, ruleswise, only creatures can have creature types. (Lands can have land types, planeswalkers can have PW types, etc.) Each type comes with a set of subtypes attached to it. Tribal has subtypes too, which includes all of the creature types. Since supertypes cannot have subtypes attached to them, tribal must remain a type.
Yeah, they should probably just change the rule to allow supertypes to have specific sets of subtypes.
Tribal is weird.
May 20, 2015 7:12 p.m.
This isn't really a rules change, but I'd really like it if they changed the term "mana ability" to something like "mana producing ability."
Yeah it takes up more space, but nearly every new player I've met (myself included at one point) has thought that it meant an ability that just had an amount of mana as payment (
: Effect).
May 21, 2015 12:56 a.m.
There's one problem with that suggestion. "Mana producing ability" is not the same thing as a "mana ability".
Mana abilities do not target. - 406.1. A mana ability is either (a) an activated ability without a target that could put mana into a players mana pool when it resolves or (b) a triggered ability without a target that triggers from a mana ability and could produce additional mana. A mana ability can generate other effects at the same time it produces mana.
For Example: Deathrite Shaman's first ability is a "mana producing ability"... but it is not a "mana ability". - Due to the "target" the ability uses the stack (which mana abilities do not), and can be responded to (remove the land in response to fizzle the ability).
May 21, 2015 8:26 a.m. Edited.
SimicPower says... #42
They could still change the terminology to say "mana producing ability". Deathrite Shaman would just be an awkward case.
May 21, 2015 12:35 p.m.
@SimicPower that would be the problem. Currently while there may be some confusion, there are no special awkward cases. It would make little sense to change the rule so that there are "awkward cases" which were previously defined by the ruling, but now are not.
May 21, 2015 1:51 p.m.
The_Wolf_Pack says... #44
I think manaburn shouldn't come back, but cards that do similar affects should. It adds layers of complexity on new players that they often can't handle. And it screws with card's like Kruphix, who was just printed recenttally, hinting that Manaburn won't be coming back soon.
May 30, 2015 12:35 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #45
They could even print a card with an ability like
"whenever unused mana empties from a player's mana pool as phases and steps end, ~ deals X damage to that player, where X is the amount of mana that player emptied from their mana pool".
Would totally fit a Gruul creature.
Epochalyptik says... #2
Moved.
May 18, 2015 6:50 p.m.