Shuffling - rule change?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Nov. 19, 2014, 5:40 p.m. by ExpectDragons
Anyone know if there's been much discussion or comment from Wizards in regards to a rule change on shuffling in response to the spree of cheaters caught lately? If so what?
ExpectDragons says... #3
Currently i believe you need to call a judge if you want to reshuffle or cut after it's been handed back to you as obviously you could just do the same thing. Personally i think a standard three/four pile cut should be implanted after a shuffle by the decks owner after it's been handed back.
November 19, 2014 6:41 p.m.
I've heard Yu-Gi-Oh's shuffling rules require you to shuffle, your opponent to shuffle then you to cut your deck then your opponent to cut your deck. So shuffle,shuffle, cut, cut.
WOTC should enforce some sort of similar rule.
November 19, 2014 7:18 p.m.
the3rdH0kage says... #5
@ xlaleclx Yu-Gi-Oh's rules aren't like that unless they've changed it recently. I did a State tournament a month or so ago and that wasn't the shuffling rule, unless the head judge was wrong.
November 19, 2014 10:58 p.m.
I don't play myself but I'm friends with a few high level players who were talking about it when all the cheating stuff was going on with humphries and boetcher a little while ago
November 19, 2014 10:59 p.m.
I think it's that you're allowed to do it in Yugioh. It's completely against he rules to do it in magic, that's what needs to be changed.
November 19, 2014 11 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #8
i never really thought about cheat shuffling before, then Googled it. makes you wonder just how many players, and on what levels of competition, use or at least know how to do this sort of thing without getting caught. there should be rules implemented to at least make it harder to do, perhaps you CANT shuffle your opponent's deck, you are only allowed to cut it while the piles are on the table?
November 20, 2014 12:51 a.m.
That makes it even easier to cheat. It's very easy to stack your deck so that the card you want will be where your opponent will probably cut the deck.
November 20, 2014 2:32 a.m.
shinobigarth says... #10
i don't see how you could possibly know where they will cut the deck. everybody cuts differently and a different amount of times.
maybe the judges should just do it at tourneys, or have a bunch of volunteers that go around randomly to shuffle decks.
November 20, 2014 2:37 a.m.
Most people cut towards the middle of the deck and if you leave some cards of the deck hanging over the side then you can encourage your opponent to cut right there. It's very easy to do and has a reasonable chance of working
November 20, 2014 12:43 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #12
but that stops mattering once they cut it a couple more times after that.
November 20, 2014 3:14 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #14
then they'd just be better off having a neutral 3rd party do all the shuffling for tournaments.
November 20, 2014 3:38 p.m.
ExpectDragons says... #15
that would just a create a level of bureaucracy we could all do without and the need for more volunteers who'd constantly be hovering around tables to see who needed a shuffle/cut
November 20, 2014 3:59 p.m.
ExpectDragons says... #16
the yu-gi-oh way sounds like a much simpler fix imho
November 20, 2014 4 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #17
no because if someone knows how to stack decks well enough they could still get around that and cheat too
November 20, 2014 6:11 p.m.
The way wizards rules have it now, your not supposed to be able to shuffle/cut your own deck before it's placed and ready to go, because then you'd be the last person to touch it, giving you a chance to stack it.
That's why we have our opponents shuffle/cut our decks, because as long as they're not peaking at the bottom card while they shuffle Your deck, there's no way for them to stack it.
They will never implement a system where you get to touch/manipulate your deck before it's presented.
As far as breaking down all the 'what-if' scenarios involved with this discussion, it's very trivial and not going anywhere.
Cheaters are an unfortunate aspect of the game, and should be pointed out and ridiculed at-length, to no end.
Cheating was going on long before #shuffleGate earlier this year, and tons of people still get away with cheating, the only thing we all can do is be vigilant during our own matches, watching how our opponents shuffle our decks. it's the only proven method to stop cheating.
November 20, 2014 6:43 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #19
would it work if judges (or other DCI staff) cut the decks after the opponent shuffled so they would be the last to touch them?
November 20, 2014 7:10 p.m.
OP_Magikarp says... #20
Honestly, just pay close attention to your opponent while they handle your deck. If you're watching closely then you'll be able to tell if they are manipulating the cards. If they see you looking so intently, then they won'y even try it in the first place.
November 20, 2014 7:43 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #21
well sure but some people are very good at sleight of hand, and its a very big deal in a high stakes environment like pro tour
CrazyLittleGuy says... #2
I don't believe there's been any comment from Wizards about it, and why should there be? It's not really the method of shuffling that's allowing/encouraging cheating, and if it was, what kind of shuffling change would make a difference while also being practical?
November 19, 2014 6:20 p.m.