Standard Land Speculation
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on June 24, 2015, 5:36 p.m. by NobodyPicksBulbasaur
MaRo today commented that the new Nissa tutoring for only "basic" forests was due to power level. Now, I don't know if you've seen Nissa, but her power level seems pretty low. She's definitely not Modern or Legacy viable.
This leads me to believe that if Wizards is specifying "basic" forest for power level reasons, they're doing it for Standard. Why would they specify "basic" forest? Because there will be nonbasic forests in Standard alongside Nissa.
Wizards is making more nonbasic lands with basic land types, and they're doing it soon!
We were kinda discussing this in the spoiler thread, and I agree to a degree. Wizards has to have some idea that the cards they print in Standard affect Modern in some way (especially with what they did with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time). But they design cards specifically for Standard/Limited, so it is a perfectly reasonable conclusion to make.
June 24, 2015 5:44 p.m.
Oh yes please! Legendary ABURs, could it be? Noo? Or is it? Why not just spoil it now? Im actually bleeding from my cuticles :)
June 24, 2015 5:45 p.m.
smackjack You are very happy about this speculation, aren't you? xD
June 24, 2015 5:47 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #7
Let me draw a picture for you:
Nonbasic lands with basic land types are coming, so that they can be fetched with the fetchlands coming in BFZ. HYPE!
June 24, 2015 5:52 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #8
My bets are on single colored lands with basic land type abilities are coming. Maybe in origins Maybe in bfz block
June 24, 2015 5:54 p.m.
sergiodeliro: Yes! Oh yess! Im all filled up with hype! Its gonna be Legendary! ;)
June 24, 2015 5:56 p.m.
I don't see Legendary ABUR duals, at all. They're too close to the ABUR duals themselves and WAY too powerful with fetchlands in Standard.
I can see nonbasic utility lands in the same vein as Madblind Mountain.
June 24, 2015 5:57 p.m.
JWiley129 they would be good in standard, yes. Why is that a reason not to print it? Standard cant have nice things?
June 24, 2015 6:03 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #13
Sorry. The software on my autocorrect is bugged. Erases or replaces stuff sometimes.
More or less i was trying to say exactly what Jwiley said
June 24, 2015 6:03 p.m.
smackjack - It's because of their interactions with Fetches that they won't be printed. Makes the mana too good in Standard and lets the 3-color midrange decks run supreme like they did in INN-RTR Standard. Oh wait, that's right, people loved that Standard. If Checks/Buddy + Shocklands are too good in the eyes of R&D, you better believe Fetches + "ABUR Duals" are too good for Standard.
June 24, 2015 6:05 p.m.
Well, it would only be the allied pairs, assuming that the enemy manlands will be in BFZ and the enemy painlands are already in Standard, if that helps any.
June 24, 2015 6:07 p.m.
So then.. VampireArmy, why cant standard have powerful lands?
June 24, 2015 6:07 p.m.
smackjack - It's not about Standard having powerful lands, the fetches are in Standard after all. It's about Standard having too good mana-fixing. In INN-RTR Standard you had 10 buddy lands and 10 shock lands, letting the metagame converge into 3-color Midrange being the prevalent strategy. That is not what Wizards wants for Standard. If there is a powerful land cycle (read: fetches) they can't print duals with basic land types (read: shocks, ABUR duals, etc) because then the mana bases would resemble Modern, which has great mana. They want diversity in Standard, not everyone playing the same types of decks.
June 24, 2015 6:09 p.m.
JWiley129: I started playing during Gatecrash, so I have a hard time figuring out if "Oh wait, that's right, people loved that Standard" is ironic or not :)
June 24, 2015 6:12 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #19
I think Nissa is being underrated currently. If she could fetch shocks she might be a house in Modern. Now it probably won't sniff it. They put caps on cards to make sure they don't break the game. It also reserves design space if they had the inclination to do what the op is proposing but I wouldn't say that it is indicative of it happening.
June 24, 2015 6:43 p.m. Edited.
They put "basic" on it so she wouldn't be able to grab shocks outside of Standard. I highly doubt they'll print another land cycle with land types on them again, especially when fetches are in Standard.
The only way I can see Wizards printing nonbasic lands with basic types on them is if it's something like Madblind Mountain, Moonring Island etc.
June 24, 2015 7:03 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #22
I never said dual lands. Simply nonbasic. There's so much room for development in that space it's crazy.
June 24, 2015 9:17 p.m.
WovenNebula says... #24
Enemy pain lands officially in Origins, so that's a no to enemy fetches in BFZ and a no to enemy man lands. Sooooo maybe allied man lands or fast lands in BFZ..
June 25, 2015 12:15 p.m.
They had the perfect scenario in Allied Pains -> Enemy Manlands/Fetches. That would've worked fine. This sucks. Why was this decision made.
June 25, 2015 2:04 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #26
JDMCRIB ugh stop... Any other dual lands printed besides ones currently legal in Standard would have broke the meta. Also this does nothing to preclude WotC from printing enemy fetches in BFZ.
June 25, 2015 2:09 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 Okay, I see your point... still kinda sucks regardless.
June 25, 2015 2:16 p.m.
@Rasta_Viking29... you keep saying that "it would have broken the Meta".... with no reasoning behind the statement.
When M15 Came out, there was a full set of Shocks, a full set of Scy, and the enemy half of Pain... the meta wasn't 'Broken' at that point.
So I don't see why it would have been broken with a full set of Pain, a full set of Scry, and a half set of Fetches.
Once BfZ comes out, it could have simply been full set of Fetches and full set of Pain. - Now it will be half set of Pain and half or full set of Fetches... there's going to be a gap somewhere.
June 25, 2015 4 p.m.
I don't agree with Rasta_Viking29 that new duals would have "broken" the metagame, but it is easier for R&D to just put in the Enemy pain lands. They already know what they do in Standard, so they don't have to test as extensively on whether they are OP or not.
June 25, 2015 4:01 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #31
I've been explaining this since hype for DTK started. First off read the Standard section of this article.
3 color mana bases are pretty close to straddling the line of playable and not playable in Standard. Ex: Abzan has a working mana base and Temur does not. Wizards designed cards that were 3 colors that had a high power level which offset having worse mana than 2 color decks and incentivises running a 3rd color. Rather that printing additional duals making 3 color mana bases solidly playable and 4 color a distinct possibility they offered more support to dual and mono colored decks. Most players are oblivious to the fact that fetchlands are very mediocre in 3 color decks due to biases formed from playing them in other formats. Painlands are actually much better than fetches in Standard 3 color decks due to continual fixing. Ex: Karplusan Forest allows Temur and Jund to hit the 22+ 
, 22+ 
, and 11-14 
mana sources it needs with out running 12+ tapped lands or an absurd amount of painlands. Underground River decreases the tension on U/B's first three turns by upping the consistency they can cast their 
and 
spells. It would also make splashing a 3rd color trivial as opposed to leaning on Haven to cast Ojutai. A whole different 10 land cycle would have even greater effects.
Regarding last Standard: The fixing available was superior to this Standard. Shocks >>> Fetches/Pain, Temples = Temples, Gainlands = Guildgates. Here is the rub: Mutavault. Mutavault is amazing in Standard and warped the whole format around accommodating it into their mana base. Combine that with big payoff cards that were mono-colored and you get MBD and MUD. Wizards wanted us playing mono or dual colored decks so they built a land base that would push us in that direction. Sure U/W and G/R splashed B occasionally but was always a metagame call and not a sure thing.
I had to stop and start writing this multiple times so I'm sorry if there's anything unclear about it.
June 25, 2015 5:39 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #32
People seem to forget that Wizards has been balancing mana in Standard for a looong time now. They know what they're doing.
People need to understand that shocklands are probably about the best lands that Standard will ever see again. Hoping for lands on a similar or greater power level will surely leave you dissapointed. Inconsistent mana is an intrinsic part of MtG. If it were perfect every time the game would be worse, not better.
June 26, 2015 7:02 a.m.
WovenNebula says... #33
It'd be interesting if they printed no dual lands and for a brief period of time all we had were basic lands. Then again a lot of people are spoiled by WoTC so there would be outrage, but personally it'd be fun and shake things up.
June 26, 2015 1:05 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #34
I think Temur's mana base can work right now...but I'd like to have Karplusan Forest, please. Anyone think that Allied pains might show up soon?
2gherkins says... #2
Hopefully something good.
June 24, 2015 5:40 p.m.