Technology in Magic
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 29, 2014, 8:43 p.m. by ChiefBell
Magic has a massive universe but underlying it all is a certain 'feel' - an abstract concept that ties everything together. As a result of this there seem to be some concepts or objects or that we'll never see.
For example - I don't think we'll ever see guns in a magic card because it doesn't fit in with the overall 'feel' (please correct me if you disagree!). How do you feel about this? Do you feel like the concept is getting in the way of potentially trying something new?
Another example - I don't think magic will ever print anything that looks 'industrialised' or 'gritty'. Factories, cars, machinery. I don't think that would fit in with the overarching fantasy theme. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong!). I suppose things like myr etc are a magic attempt at machinery but again, it feels clean and polished instead of dirty, sooty and un-glamorous.
Do you ever wish that wizards would try something completely new and print a set that was really far removed from any other in an artistic and flavour sense? Do you think that wizards have limited themselves too much? Would you like to see cars, factories, and other things in magic?
I would argue that I like the idea of experimentation but I don't think a lot of those things should be printed. I tried designing a set that features guns and it didn't feel 'right'. It didn't feel like magic. Although I would like to see a set with industrialisation and factories - maybe something with a steampunk vibe. It probably won't happen because, again, I don't think its 'magic-y'.
Epochalyptik says... #4
I'm pretty sure there was a thread about this topic a while ago in either Lore or S&R. This thread itself probably belongs in one of those locations. I'll put it in S&R for now because it's more of a "do you think" or "what if" kind of discussion.
Guns
I doubt we'll ever see guns in Magic. They don't fit with the fantasy universe theme very well. Sure, there are ways to make them work, but the gun is a very powerful force in fictional (and real) worlds. How do you balance it? What technology are you forced to consider when you introduce it? How does that change the existing universe?
There are a few examples of guns in Magic, and I think they were highlighted in the other thread, but the guns themselves were merely elements of the art. They weren't primary elements, either. So far, the weapons of the Multiverse are pretty standard fantasy fare.
Industry
This is another one of those ideas that just doesn't mesh with the fantasy setting. The closest we currently get to industry is Phyrexia and artifice, but magic and careful craftsmanship are still vital pieces of those concepts. Industry, like guns, would be such a hard design concept to balance. Flavor-wise, it'd be difficult to integrate into the existing material.
Steampunk is about as close to industrialism as fantasy can comfortably get, and even steampunk is not heavily used in Magic. The Izzet are the closest, and there are some artifacts that seem to embrace the idea in spirit, but steampunk as a genre is just a little too far outside of the current vision of the Multiverse.
Experimentation
At the end of the day, it's worth experimenting. But the experiments themselves must be worth running. The examples we've considered so far are just too removed from the existing flavor and concept of the game, and they would be very difficult to integrate in a convincing manner.
March 29, 2014 9:16 p.m.
Alaborn Musketeer and Alaborn Zealot say hello. Not that anyone remembers them anyway...
March 29, 2014 9:17 p.m.
An open letter to everybody linking cards:
I refer you to this line from the OP "I suppose things like myr etc are a magic attempt at machinery but again, it feels clean and polished instead of dirty, sooty and un-glamorous."
I think his point was everything that can be categorized as machinery has been crafted and operated by some form of magic or fantasy themed method (i.e. steampunk) - whereas what the OP is getting at is the type of machinery we see in the real world. Iron, steel, oil, coal, etc.
Don't think artifice and etherium, think modern day mechanic and a gas burning engine.
March 29, 2014 9:31 p.m.
Yeh there's a lot of shiny, bright machinery but nothing that's dirty like coal machinery. So yeh... what EvenDryke said.
It's interesting that there are two cards that feature guns. That is a find and I'll have to remember them.
I think they COULD do a steampunk type world but it wouldn't fit in very well.
March 29, 2014 9:40 p.m.
I've always enjoyed thinking about just how "modern" magic can get before it would start to feel wrong - and honestly the answer I always arrive at is... Not very.
The thing is you don't need to move to a modern setting in a block to explore modern concepts like guns and cars. Magic has a built in system that circumvents the need for technology and that system is that (que fairy princess music) anything is possible with magic. They can make what amounts to a car, airplane, factory or gun as long as instead of running on something like powder, coal or gas it runs on magic.
Putting magic in your universe is like the ultimate cop out. You can do whatever you want now because MAGIC!!!!! Ultimately it's a good thing for us as the players because it keeps things interesting.
March 29, 2014 9:43 p.m.
But to keep the fantasy feel they have to neglect certain concepts and atmospheres. Phyrexia and izzet are probably as aesthetically dark, industralised, and gritty as magic will get. Do you not think that's a shame? As if, magic is too optimistic, too light hearted?
March 29, 2014 9:47 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #12
I'll refer you to the label on every piece of Magic merchandise and product of the last like 20 or so years, "13+"
This is a kids game at it's core. I think that it's supposed to feel more optimistic and go-lucky than the average day of a 1920's chicago meat packer.
March 29, 2014 9:56 p.m.
If I may interrupt, I think Wizards has at least thought of this. May I present to you a card that is totally cool. Steamflogger Boss has one of the most interesting and quizzical card rulings. It was printed in Future Sight, but look at the potential!
March 29, 2014 10:30 p.m.
Mark Rosewater has mentioned in the past that steampunk is a setting on their 'shortlist' of things. He doesn't know if they'll do it, but I guess they have at least talked about it.
March 29, 2014 10:49 p.m.
Mirrodin is Magic's science-fiction plane. Even the original Urza's block and the Rath Cycle are littered with technology. A key element of the Brother's War was technology. Look at cards like Arcbound Fiend , Leveler , March of the Machines , etc. Mirrodin was quite groundbreaking when it was first printed, blurring the line between Science Fiction and Fantasy.
As BrennanMcCabe pointed out, Portal 2nd. Age had muskets. In the backstory, these were Phyrexian-made and given to the Nightstalkers, who traded them to the Goblins. The Alaborn humans reverse-engineered the devices to make muskets of their own.
March 30, 2014 5:37 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #18
As to the matter of guns, within a set you'd have to give all the dudes that have them first strike. But that's about it.
March 30, 2014 1:33 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #19
On that topic, I never understood why archers don't have first strike. It seems logical that they would.
March 30, 2014 1:36 p.m.
KrosanTusker says... #20
Maybe they all have really slow reflexes? I don't know, that does seem strange.
March 30, 2014 3:01 p.m.
It does seem like ranged weaponry should infer first strike.
March 30, 2014 3:17 p.m.
It's so completely out of the M:tG world that I'm sure it will never happen, but sometimes I wish for a cyberpunk-themed block, almost like a throwback to Netrunner with M:tG rules. That would make me the happiest person ever.
Servo_Token says... #2
Goblin Charbelcher , Copper Carapace , Mishra's Factory , Urza's Mine , Ral Zarek
But anyway, you do have a solid point. Though at this point, I think that a modern day earth-esque plane would be a bit awkward. I think Mirrodin is as close to a mechanized world as we're going to get, and I'm ok with that.
On the other hand, Ravnica is one of the most popular planes, and that's about as modernized as they've gotten, so maybe it could be a good thing? Who knows.
I would like to see them try something like what you're describing, but I don't think it would be too popular just because it's so different.
March 29, 2014 8:52 p.m.