Temporal Trespass the next "Dig through time".
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Dec. 30, 2014, 1:08 p.m. by shepherdofire
8UUU delve you take an extra turn and exile the card. This is going in my mill deck. This is beautiful and insane. What are your thoughts on it?
shepherdofire says... #3
Combine with Taigam's Scheming you can make fuel. And getting an extra turn of mill in is great.
December 30, 2014 1:13 p.m.
If you're playing Taigam's Scheming, you might not be delving correctly. It certainly synergizes well with cards like Sidisi, Brood Tyrant and Satyr Wayfinder, but I think that 
is a bit to expensive, even WITH Delve.
December 30, 2014 1:23 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #5
Can't believe they had the balls to do this, but I will play it.
December 30, 2014 1:36 p.m.
slovakattack says... #6
We all knew this was coming.
I'm a little less excited about it in EDH because my fantasy Maelstrom Wanderer deck can't cascade into it, but it's nice.
December 30, 2014 1:39 p.m.
zyphermage says... #7
@JWiley129 You are one funny guy. Taigam's Scheming is for delving... and delving 8 plus 3 blue extra turn is cheap.
Taking extra turns should be around 5 cmc Temporal Manipulation for example. For 3 you could delve 8 and take an extra turn while still playing a 2 mana card. Sure standard won't abuse it enough probably, but when has standard ever abused something more than another format?
December 30, 2014 1:45 p.m.
zyphermage - Taigam's Scheming is a bad card in so many ways. If it cantripped it would be much better, but as is it doesn't do anything. Sure you could pitch all 5 cards, but it isn't really how you want to delve. I'd rather put cards in my graveyard using cards like the ones I named above and Commune with the Gods, Nyx Weaver, and so on. Those cards actually DO something, which Taigam's Scheming doesn't. Now, is Delve a potentially broken mechanic? Yep, I think Modern & Legacy have shown us that with Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time, but Temporal Trespass isn't either of those because of the in the casting cost.
Is it a good card? Pretty much. It can be a 3 mana Time Walk in Standard, but it's not as exciting in other formats. Delver doesn't need a Time Walk for triple , in any format. Plus you aren't playing 4 of these, it's not as busted as Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time, but I will wait to be proven wrong.
December 30, 2014 2:04 p.m.
is pretty expensive, close to unplayable even with Delve. Altho, that was me first thought when i saw Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time as well, and im pretty sure i was wrong :)..
I guess Dig Through Time and Treasure Cruise are both better than taking an extra turn, so i will probably save my graveyard to delve those cards instead..
December 30, 2014 2:05 p.m.
zyphermage says... #10
It's not a bad card.... You say it does nothing when it can set up the next 5 draws or draw you one out of the top 5 you need and pitch the rest.
Who said it had to be played in delver? I think there are other blue decks that would play it. Probably not miracles since they could already Temporal Mastery but do not. I am mainly thinking of commander but it definitely is not an expensive effect. Any cheaper and it would potentially be too much.
December 30, 2014 2:20 p.m.
zyphermage - So, by your logic Index is a fine card. Taigam's Scheming is bad, because the only deck that runs it in Standard is the Jeskai Ascendancy deck because it DESPERATELY needs card selection to find the combo.
And I mentioned Delver because it's the deck that popularized Delve spells in older formats. I'm not sure there is a deck in Modern that wants Time Walk over any of the other Delve spells.
December 30, 2014 2:24 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #13
EDH power card, certainly! It still seems a bit wonky for Standard, but some people will try singletons in control decks, perhaps in replacement of one copy of Dig. Though, taking an extra turn as a control deck isn't always that beneficial.
December 30, 2014 2:39 p.m.
zyphermage says... #14
Yes Index is a fine card lol.... and taigam's scheming is even better. Ask yourself, why do you really hate the card? Did it touch you somewhere or call you names?
December 30, 2014 2:49 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #15
Well to be fair, Taigam's Scheming is totally better than Index because you get to get rid of cards you don't want at all.
December 30, 2014 2:53 p.m.
Let me try again zyphermage. In your deck, you want every card to do something that helps you. Taigam's Scheming does one thing, and it does that thing very poorly. It doesn't replace itself, it doesn't help you in any meaningful way, and it takes up a slot in your deck. If I was Sultai, and I wanted to fill my graveyard, I want cards like the ones I mentioned above, because even in the late game they aren't dead cards. Drawing Taigam's Scheming in a top-deck war is just plain bad, whereas the other cards I named at least did something whereas Taigam's Scheming is just plain bad.
December 30, 2014 2:59 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #17
Taigam's Scheming is most definitely a bad card.
December 30, 2014 3:02 p.m.
zyphermage says... #18
I don't really care for the new clan names nor do I even care about the sultai colors, or standard for that matter. It's a good thing we all can have our own opinions.
December 30, 2014 3:02 p.m.
Taigam's Scheming is basically a Time Walk if you use it right. Commune with the Gods are not close in power level..
December 30, 2014 3:03 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #20
Taigam's Scheming is very bad. 2 mana to gain no card advantage is bad by any stretch, even if you are using it to fuel delve spells. Play Thought Scour in Modern or Commune with the Gods in Standard for better options.
As for Time Walk, I'm not a fan. 8 is just a little too much to have to delve/pay, and triple blue is rather steep as well. I don't think anyone is going to play it outside of Limited.
December 30, 2014 3:04 p.m.
zyphermage - you are entitled to your opinion, but just know that your opinion is wrong and you are fighting against about 99% of the competitive MtG community.
December 30, 2014 3:07 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #22
"you are entitled to your opinion, but just know that your opinion is wrong"
LOL. Welcome to the Internet, everyone.
@zyphermage The main issue I have with it is that even though it sets up later draws and fuels delve spells, it gains no actual card advantage. I'd rather be playing something like Commune with the Gods because those can actually put new cards into my hand when I need them, rather than setting up for later.
December 30, 2014 3:13 p.m.
GlistenerAgent - there are wrong opinions. There are people who think that the Holocaust didn't happen, but it did. Not that I'm saying the Holocaust and Taigam's Scheming are anywhere close to comparable. But that's the most extreme example I can think of.
December 30, 2014 3:20 p.m.
shepherdofire says... #24
Taigams is fine. Sure it has set up but no draw, neither does scry. It's a scry card. A powerful one at that. Look at top 5 and dump anything thatt won't help you but it will as delve fuel in the yard.
December 30, 2014 3:28 p.m.
zyphermage says... #25
I don't think looking 5 cards deep is a bad card. What if there is a card with commune from the Gods I want in my hand besides one I am choosing? This also has to be enchantment or creature, also assuming I want to play green. I like taigam's scheming better because I don't have to pitch a planeswalker to the yard, or artifact/sorcery/instant. If I am looking for a third land on my 2nd turn I would rather go scheming than communing.
December 30, 2014 3:29 p.m.
@zyphermage think of it this way; imagine if Dig Through Time let you look at the top 7, choose two cards, and put the rest on the bottoms, but instead of drawing those two cards, you were to put them on top of your library in any order. Isn't that a shitty card? Well, it's nearly the same as taigam's scheming. Both cards would give you card selection, but also no card advantage. Using taigam's scheming would be dedicating your whole turn doing nothing, so you can get an extra turn in this case. Maybe it's just me but that seems idiotic.
December 30, 2014 3:31 p.m.
Less extreme example: Some people claim Dr. Pepper tastes good. It doesn't.
December 30, 2014 3:31 p.m.
zyphermage - That's faulty thinking. The top of your library is essentially random, and those types of cards get milled every now and then. Thought Scour is a card that sees lots of play, and it mills (usually you) two cards and draws a card. It is a key card in decks that want to turbo out Delve spells like Dig Through Time or Treasure Cruise. With Delve you don't care what's in your yard, you just want it there. Commune with the Gods does that much better than Taigam's Scheming because it can grab a creature or a Whip of Erebos and then keep your graveyard filled with creatures.
It took me a while to get over the fact that self-mill is bad, but if you want to fill your graveyard, you'd better do it with cards that help your gameplan than ones that say "Look at these cards, you might get to see them".
December 30, 2014 3:35 p.m.
zyphermage says... #29
There are so many examples you could come up with. Opinions have the idea that it isn't wrong because it is not a fact. You sure are a hater for Taigam's Scheming, trying to attack it with Holocaust deniers.
Exactly, it doesn't have to put cards in hand because scrying is a thing. 5 cards deep planning turns isn't great but it is certainly not a bad card. A bad card would be Moonlace, One with Nothing, Break Open, and Wood Elemental. Those cards pass bad and move on to terrible. Trying to lump Taigam's Scheming in with this kind of cards is just sad.
December 30, 2014 3:40 p.m.
zyphermage says... #30
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/mr5
Might help you. Cards are "bad" because they are not for you or have not yet been broke open with other cards. Green is not even a color that cards about "delving", we have been discussing the new delve card not enabling Whip of Erebos.
You keep assuming I care to play green in standard when I like neither. I just have opinions about the cards, and I would certainly rather play a blue taigam's scheming than a green commune with the gods. I don't like pitching my planeswalkers or whatever else into the yard if I don't want to. I would at least rather have a choice in the matter, and scheming let's me do that.
December 30, 2014 3:45 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #31
its pretty expensive and blue heavy so its not splash able, you gotta commit to blue, maybe splash another color. blue delve would rather just draw into answer and wincons, not spend a lot of that delve power taking another turn which isn't gonna benefit them a whole lot.
December 30, 2014 3:47 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #32
It's not like there's only one level of mediocrity when it comes to cards. One with Nothing is horrible. Fugitive Wizard is not as bad as One with Nothing, but is still a very bad card as it is non-impactful. Taigam's Scheming is not terrible, it's just relatively bad.
Again, the issue with it is that it doesn't draw any actual cards. It's better in the early game, but as a lategame topdeck it does nothing at all, especially if you're in a pinch. You want all your cards to have an immediate impact or board presence if at all possible, something that Scheming fails to do.
December 30, 2014 3:48 p.m.
zyphermage says... #33
What do you mean "that's faulty thinking", which part? You just blatantly label all my thinking as faulty now and compare me to holocaust deniers?
December 30, 2014 3:48 p.m.
Eh, Temporal Trespass is ok, but I don't think it's that insane. Because of all the set-up and triple blue I think it's going to often run into the classic Time Walk play of basically just being an Explore. The only deck I can see it immediately seeing play in is the Modern Walk the Aeons deck.
December 30, 2014 3:49 p.m.
zyphermage says... #35
That's true it is not a late game card necessarily. It is better in the early turns for set up]. Even late game it could be used with another card to actually draw what it wants. Any card be explained by adding another card to make it work sure, but other draw cards in blue is not far fetched is what I mean. On it's own, yes it would not draw a card but we all know that from reading it.
December 30, 2014 3:52 p.m.
zyphermage - Your thinking is faulty in the sense of "but what if I mill my bomb?!". That is the main reason why you are valuing Taigam's Scheming over Commune with the Gods, When you play self-mill cards, you shouldn't care what you mill, you just want to mill. Cards in your library don't do anything to help you, so you just want to get them into your yard as quickly as possible. But at the same time, you don't want cards that do nothing.
At this point I'm just going to keep repeating myself, so I'm going to stop here. And at no point did I compare you to a Holocaust denier, that was just an example of a wrong opinion.
December 30, 2014 3:54 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #37
Cards that need other cards to do anything are not that great, unless what you're doing is exceptional. Drawing a couple cards after a moderate amount of selection isn't exceptional.
December 30, 2014 3:56 p.m.
zyphermage says... #38
I don't even really get into standard, I feel like I am beating that horse dead but it seems to get ignored. So it is not like I really care about the cards. If I did play standard I would rather play blue than green that is what I do know. Just looking at Taigam's Scheming and Commune with the Gods is enough for me to speculate on them. In standard practice I clearly don't know or care.
December 30, 2014 3:57 p.m.
Hey zyphermage, you're really wrong. That's okay, you're entitled to your wrong opinion because this is the internet and we can't actually convince you. Taigam's Scheming is a card that's mediocre in draft and absolutely horrible in Constructed. You can't do anything good with it in the way of combo potential unlike a card such as Gifts Ungiven. You're basically getting an effect similar to scry 3 which clearly isn't a good enough card (see Mystic Speculation). Yeah, it fills your graveyard, but it isn't as reliable as Satyr Wayfinder where you get a body and a card back or the previously mentioned Commune with the Gods which digs you as deep. Taigam's Scheming also often only gets you 2-3 cards in your graveyard when you want more, especially in Sultai whip. In Whip decks you'll often leave creatures on top of your deck when you just get to draw them later and you shut off turns you could have had otherwise. Also Wood Elemental isn't completely terrible now like it was before. Do you even Titania, Protector of Argoth?
December 30, 2014 3:57 p.m.
zyphermage says... #40
No I do not, because those cards are both actually bad. I have yet to see anyone impress me with Titania, Protector of Argoth in legacy. In commander when I see it do work, I can see other combos I would still rather be doing.
You are entitled to your wrong opinions as well because this is the internet as you have said. Let me welcome you once again to it while we are having this conversation.
Why do green cards keep coming up in a conversation about a blue card.... I want to be playing blue not green. If any other colors go with it I would lean towards black and white and not green.
December 30, 2014 4:07 p.m.
zyphermage says... #41
I guess I picked a really bad standard card to comment on. I stepped on so many toes about it, it is crazy. I guess the standard community has already fought a war about Taigam's Scheming already and I showed up late.
December 30, 2014 4:09 p.m.
I cant see this card being played much in Standard, but I'll be making a mono deck to play it in anyway.
As for EDH, it is simply great. Going into my Narset and Phenax decks for sure. Probably Nekusar as well. I dont think Oloro needs it...
December 30, 2014 4:18 p.m.
shepherdofire says... #43
The whole reason I would use this card is to mill my opponent with out letting them retaliate. This is with my phenax deck
December 30, 2014 4:21 p.m.
Yeah, its going right into my Phenax EDH for that reason.
December 30, 2014 4:28 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #45
yeah BUT NOT STANDARD because you don't mill in standard, at least right now, unless you just want to lose. i have never lost ONCE to a mill deck in standard in all my years of playing.
December 30, 2014 4:31 p.m.
slovakattack says... #46
MFW someone says Taigam's Scheming is a bad card
December 30, 2014 4:39 p.m.
Im surprised no one (unless I missed it) brought up a comparison with Temporal Mastery. I know that they aren't the same, and it could be argued which is better, but they are similar in that they offer a conditional, low cost extra turn. I feel that if we look at how well Temporal Mastery did in standard and its "impact" in other formats, we can get that idea on this as well. I feel it is much easier to work with temporal trespass but I don't think it will have an incredible impact. I could be wrong though. I highly doubt anyone ever though that Squadron Hawk would be abused at any time but with the right cards, it was. That could happen here if someone is bright enough
December 30, 2014 4:40 p.m.
i think UUU hurts this card more than anyone has mentioned yet. At least for standard.
December 30, 2014 4:51 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #49
Temporal Mastery is at worst 7 mana, not 11 like this. at best its Time Walk while at best this one costs UUU but then you make your Cruise and Dig worse.
December 30, 2014 5:33 p.m.
zyphermage says... #50
I think with cruise and dig around this card is definitely lackluster in comparison for sure. Maybe if they released this card first, even then meh.
Servo_Token says... #2
Meh. It's fine, but remember that you can only have so many cards in your graveyard to delve, and most of the time pitching 8 wont be worth it if you could instead go for a cruise or whatever.
EDH, this thing is an instant staple in most blue decks
December 30, 2014 1:10 p.m.