the Ally pain lands
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on July 28, 2014, 12:02 p.m. by abenz419
What do you think are the chances we see these in the first set of the new block? I feel like it's pretty likely considering the first set is the only one that is supposed to have the focus on the wedges and not having them will hinder certain decks. For instance, I've been toying around with the post rotation mana base and as it is right now W/B/G decks have trouble casting white spells early. Because it only has one pain land available with white, your limited on the number of white sources you have that come in untapped without increasing the number of basics that you run which means sacrificing on fixing. Sure you can build around that by making the deck heavier in B/G, but that means you can't include things like Brimaz, King of Oreskos because he's too mana intensive to cast reliably on time. Which just seems like your really restricting what the color combination can do as a whole by eliminating some of the variety the decks can have.
Having said that, I still feel like it's very possible that they introduce some new stuff that is related to the "wedge" colors and then bring in the rest of the pain lands in the second set. Sort of like a way to transition the standard meta from rotation to the eventual release of the final set in the next block.
I feel like both are very reasonable possibilities, so i was curious, what do you guys think?
kungfuturtle says... #3
i say core sets are the place for reprinting lands, I want each set of the new block to introduce new things, As long as we get a cycle of Allied colored lands in Khans and 2/3 of the enemy lands in the other sets I will be happy
July 28, 2014 12:27 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #4
I'm not sure they actually intend to release the other half of the full cycle at any point. Khans is supposed to have its own full cycle
July 28, 2014 12:34 p.m.
I don't think we'll be getting the allied pain lands in Khans b/c one of the developers said that Khans will have its own cycle of dual lands. Also I would expect a cycle of lands like Savage Lands
and Crumbling Necropolis
for the wedges.
One off-topic thought. I think that they brought back Morph to make it easier to cast 3 color spells, b/c Maro has said how Alara didn't have the right amount of fixing. And with Morph coming back it makes some duals almost unnecessary.
July 28, 2014 12:36 p.m.
RussischerZar says... #6
Morph makes Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow crazy good.
July 28, 2014 12:44 p.m.
That is, if you're bad enough to use Morph. Morph was awful last time around.
My prediction is that we'll finally see wedge-color tri-lands, like Seaside Citadel but W, G, and B.
Of course , these would be uncommons and that still leaves the rare land slots open. Maybe even more 3-color fixing? I couldn't imagine we'll see dual-lands in a wedge set.
July 28, 2014 12:54 p.m.
kungfuturtle says... #8
My thought is that we will see lands that behave like the Speed Lands from Scars of Mirrodin
July 28, 2014 1:06 p.m.
Maybe they make some kind of "Bolt Lands". Like the Shocklands with basic land types and so on but they produce three different colours and you have to take 3 damage or they enter the battlefield tapped.
July 28, 2014 2:10 p.m.
magicnerd0815 - There's no way Wizards will print those cards b/c they are infinitely abuse-able and makes the mana in Standard too good.
July 28, 2014 2:16 p.m.
With the Wedge theme announced, I am now more inclined to say that they may be printing Fetchlands.
The 5 enemy Fetchlands, which are the ones currently in Modern, would be the largest support for the Wedge theme in KTK.
Note: this is not a theme of the BLOCK, but rather of the SET.
For those who wish to play 2 color, allied color, the M15 pain lands will be available.
If this is the case, I could then see them possibly printing the 5 Allied color Fetches in the 3rd set of the Block, as it is not going to be Wedge theme (but shard theme not ruled out yet)
To sum up my thoughts....:
Set 1: Large set - Wedge theme - Enemy Fetches - 2x Planeswalkers (Sarkhan and New)
Set 2: Small set - Time travel / Colorless theme - No Fetches (possible colorless/filter land)... possible Enemy pain's to off-set the M15. - 1x Planeswalker (Ugin)
Set 3: Large Set - possible Shard theme (caused by time travel) - Allied Fetches. - 2x Planeswalker (Bolas or Koth and New)
This is just pure speculation, but it would flow well, and make thematic sense.
July 28, 2014 3:37 p.m.
Rayenous - I asked Maro if there were wedge themes in KTK block, and he said "you'll have to wait and see." While KTK isn't a Wedge block, I find it unlikely that there won't be some wedge support in the block.
And fetches would make a 3-color deck more viable, and more competitive. So I know I'd like to see that.
July 28, 2014 3:44 p.m.
oops.... just notices I said in "Set 2:"... "possible Enemy pain lands".... that should be "possible Allied pain lands", which would be much more relevant to the topic of this thread.
July 28, 2014 3:59 p.m.
JWiley129 you're right about my idea of the "Bolt Lands" it was just a spontaneus idea and I didn't really thought about. They would definitely cause problems, maybe even in Modern.
July 28, 2014 4:07 p.m.
magicnerd0815 - believe me, I've thought about what sort of drawback a comes into play untapped Tri-land would need to not be busted beyond belief. But it'd probably be closer to "Pay 4 life" than "Pay 3".
July 28, 2014 4:12 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #16
JWiley129, I'd even love a land that was three basic types and flat-out came into play tapped.
July 28, 2014 5:09 p.m.
To tell the truth, the lands I'd like to see are something along the lines of Murmuring Bosk . I like the basic land subtype, and that it can tap for other colors like painlands. The tribal aspect would have to be changed to something else, but it's just always seemed like a really cool land to me.
July 28, 2014 5:16 p.m.
if they don't reprint the ally pain lands and it's a whole new set of dual lands then I think something like Fulcrum said would seem reasonable. In a panel update video from comic com they said that it was announced there would be an abundance of dijinn, efreet, and bear creature types in this set. Regardless if they're new lands or the ally pain lands, like I originally thought, the first set will most likely have ally color lands because you can't restrict the mana base for so many decks by flooding the meta with enemy colored lands allowing them to have great mana bases with ally color decks struggling for consistancy..Then the enemy color lands will be released in the other sets (like they've done with shocks and temples) with the ally pain lands maybe in M16 to complete a full painland cycle.
July 28, 2014 5:30 p.m.
@abenz419: If they print the ally painlands in M16, I hope they just print the whole cycle so that some half don't cycle out at different times.
July 28, 2014 5:33 p.m.
I was just suggesting that because it's odd to just have half the cylce as it is now. Depending on what's in Khans, there are decks that will be hurt by not having the untapped dual lands available to them. So it just seems odd to me that they would put such a restriction on some decks and allow other deck types to have a much better mana base and let them function much more consistently.
July 28, 2014 6:12 p.m.
Also, as another thing to point out, with the new Obnixlis, doesn't it remind you a little of how they brought back Farseek? I mean, he OBVIOUSLY would shut out fetch's and searches...
July 28, 2014 10:54 p.m.
he also stops Chord of Calling and Liliana Vess 's second ability which they just reprinted and could easily be something they did to help keep those in check.
July 28, 2014 11:17 p.m.
@RussischerZar: Note that Bile Blight does not extend past the initially targeted face-down creature. Because face-down creatures have no name, they cannot share the same name.
July 29, 2014 3:51 a.m.
RussischerZar says... #24
@ Drilnoth: Hm. That makes sense, but at the same time if you cast something without paying for it's mana cost, the mana cost is treated as 0, which can afterwards be influenced by other things like Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or Trinisphere . So maybe the "no name" is kind of a name by itself. I guess we'll have to wait for Wizards to do a statement on this to be completely sure.
July 29, 2014 5:28 a.m.
@ RussischerZar: We don't have to "wait for Wizards"... we already know how it works, unless they decide to change something for Khans (which is possible, but unlikely). Take a look here for a previous discussion. The most notable thing discussed there is one of the Gatherer rulings on Maelstrom Pulse : "A face-down creature has no name, so it doesn't have the same name as anything else."
That's the official ruling right now.
July 29, 2014 6:11 a.m.
@abenz419 - I doubt they will print the allied painlands. I think they printed the enemy ones in M15 to even out the availability with the allied pain lands for aspiring Modern players.
Enemy pains were printed only three times before, in Apocalypse, 9th Edition and 10th Edition. Allied pains saw print in Ice Age, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, and 10th Edition. A single print run of M15 will balance out the availability, and it just happens to fall perfectly in line with the upcoming Khans block.
**As a side note, 8th Edition did not print pain lands. They instead had a single rare land in City of Brass and went with the uncommon lands a la Coastal Tower .
July 29, 2014 8:26 a.m.
Or Axelands? Tri-color for 5 damage when played untapped?
July 29, 2014 11:37 a.m.
There's probably going to be Hidetsugu lands. 5-color for half your life total to come in untapped.
July 29, 2014 12:31 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #30
I think that a land that has 3 basic types would still be a rare even if it flat-out came into play tapped.
A land with all five basic land types would have to have multiple downsides for it to be balanced. Like double City of Brass ability...
July 29, 2014 1:03 p.m.
I'm with MagicalHacker. Any land that has 3-basic land types will be really good. If it has the ability to come into play untapped then 3-4 color aggro will be a thing and if it comes into play tapped then 3-4 color control will be a thing. While it's cool to speculate, I'm not sure that we'll see that type of land anytime soon.
July 29, 2014 1:11 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #33
Exactly. I personally like more evidence for any speculations myself. xD
July 29, 2014 1:27 p.m.
@zandl...
OH, NO!!!
There are people speculating in the speculation Forum.
Note: If it were not baseless, it would not be speculation.
Speculation: - The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
July 29, 2014 1:38 p.m.
Sorry. I thought it would be obvious instead of having to say "Look at all these people spewing baseless speculation as though it were going to happen or has a good chance of happening, or that they "bet" it will happen.
July 29, 2014 3:25 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #37
No way. Island is so OP it's not even funny. It would wreck standard.
August 4, 2014 10:18 p.m.
maybe tri-colors could work like this:
azban wastes
forest swamp plains
azban wastes enters the batllefield tapped unless you return/sacrifice 1-2 lands
or
bw, wb, bg: add bwg to your mana pool
August 4, 2014 11:06 p.m.
I don't like it. Putting 3 basic land types onto one card is just SCREAMING for that land to get pummeled. In the face. With something that... .um... pummels faces...
August 5, 2014 9:26 p.m.
I kind of think that they are going to reprint the Lorowyn/Shadowmoor lands in Khans Block because it will fix mana for wedge decks and also fix mana in devotion decks.
angrychains says... #2
i think/hope theyre going to release alara type lands.
July 28, 2014 12:11 p.m.