The Big Limited Discussion
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on April 18, 2014, 6:39 a.m. by ChiefBell
I am intending to write a quick thread about playing limited in JOU (or JIN, if you prefer).
I intend to go through the BREAD acronym, identify some bombs, some removal, some evasive stuff and go from there. Hopefully we can have a big discussion about what sound sgood to play, what doesn't and general ideas. Obviously I'll be focusing on the uncommons and commons (in fact I'm inclined to ignore the rares and mythics because they're to unreliable to count on).
When I'm done I'll post in the Limited forum - NOT HERE.
Because when I said quick thread what I meant was that it would be REALLY long.
April 18, 2014 6:52 a.m.
So uh, is this just an announcement or may we initiate discussion about card speculations here now?
April 18, 2014 6:54 a.m.
I'm announcing that I will do this. But go ahead - speculate away. It will help my write up.
This is the forum for spoilers so I think it would be best if everyone discussed the spoilers here and then I'll post my finished article in the Limited forum because it will be about the pre release.
April 18, 2014 6:58 a.m.
It looks like to me that G/B is going to be REALLY good with JOU. Nyx Weaver and Strength from the Fallen look especially strong in this archetype. Plus Kruphix's Insight, Satyr Wayfinder
and Commune with the Gods
is very good at enabling G/B Dredge. That said, Agent of Erebos kind of hoses that deck.
Another thing that's really obvious once you see all of JOU, the removal ALL went up a notch. Vanquish the Foul
is straight unplayble with Reprisal
in the set. You are going to have to be more careful when you Voltron up a creature again.
April 18, 2014 7:58 a.m.
The new Bassara Tower Archer looks like a big boost for Selesnya Hexproof, and especially since Aegis of the Gods counters Celestial Flare . Looking forward to more Unflinching Courage , Ethereal Armor shenanigans
April 18, 2014 9:35 a.m.
I'm gonna stick to commons and uncommons, as rares are less relevant, so they'll rarely matter. eh, eh?. I'm sorry. Back to the topic.
Bombs: Armament of Nyx. This card is crazy. It is either a removal spell or a way to give double strike, one of the most powerful abilities, and there are plenty of good targets like Spirespine
, Humbler of Mortals (dat double-strike trample) and Forgeborn Oreads
.
Forgeborn Oreads
. Speaking of which. I reckon people are under-valuing this card. 1 damage is not a lot, true, but if you can snag a few of these i reckon it'll be worth it. When you start getting multiples things can and will get hectic. Also: 1 to the face every time you play a bestow-creature is gonna add up if you design your deck correctly.
Squelching Leeches
. If you're playing mono-black, this thing's a beast. A 4/4 for 4 that grows is very strong. It will be a nightmare to kill in this format, as there's barely any solid removal for it, with most of the good spells being rare, such as Silence the Believers
, Hero's Downfall
and Fated Conflagration
. Most of the lower-rarities cards to deal with it are Sip of Hemlock
, Lash of the Whip
if they're lucky to snag it early, and Spiteful blow. The best options are Banishing Light
and Reprisal
. Apart from these, it is very hard to kill.
Ravenous Leucrocota
. 2/4 vigilance for 4 is pretty solid, but one of the problems with this sort of creature is it gets walled pretty easily, but in the late-game it can go on the offensive as a 5/7, while still hanging back to block.
Fleetfeather cockatrice. The duck-of-all-trades. This bird can be aggressive, defensive, or be a stall-breaker. A 3/3 flash flying for 5 is very aggressive, having evasion, flash (which will make your opponent miscalculate) and deathtouch leads to unfavourable blocks. A flash flying deathtouch makes for very helpful blocking, doubling as a removal spell, and the monstrous means it can act as a 6/6 flying, which is brutal. This is something you should be scared of.
Mogis's Warhound
. An inferior Grizzly Bears
is not a bomb by any means, but for 3 mana this bestow cost is insane. +2/+2 plus a bear that comes when it dies is bloody amazing for 3. Note that with this whole cycle it's sometimes a good idea to put them on opponents creatures, then reap the benefits of the downside. This one probably not be used too much this way, burn certainly the nautilus, the porcupine and Gnarled Scarhide
will be used to close out games this way. (I used scar hide to do this the other day :) ).Blinding flare. This card will probably do a very good job of ending games. As well as crippling your opponent's blockers, you also get 1 mana heroic triggers, as you're not going to be blocking anyway.
Rollick of abandon +2/-2 to everything is... interesting. This is a mass-removal spell or a finisher, or just a way to make lots of favourable trades. It it were 1 mana less i would've been very happy about this card, and lots of red's good cards have 2 toughness, such as Forgeborn Oreads
and Fanatic of Mogis
, but in minotaurs this will be played a lot i think, as plenty of them have 3 toughness.
Skyspear cavalry. Considering the amount of buffs in this set, an evasive doublstriker should be a top-pick, and this is reasonably costed too.Removal:
Akroan mastiff, doubling as a 2/2 this is quite flexible, but it's a bit fragile, dying to pretty much everything in the format barring Viper's Kiss
and Spark Jolt
.
I've already covered Armament of Nyx and Fleetfeather cockatrice and Rollick of abandon.
Aspect of Gorgon seems a little clunky, but it'll probably see some play as it puts the enchanted creature out of strike-range, and probably whip-range, and triggers heroic and constellation, however it only removes something when your opponent agrees for it to remove something.
Nyx infusion. This card is interesting. I don't think it's efficient enough to be any good, but in limited any removal you can get your hands on is good, but this format has too many high-toughness creatures for this to be too relevant. Against fast heroic decks this could be brutal though, crippling whatever it doesn't kill, however those decks play lots of bestow creatures, so again it's a bid iffy.
Reprisal
. This is good, and will pretty much kill anything that's getting a little big.
Starfall is a little weak for this format. Only dealing 3 damage for 5 mana in a format populated by high-toughness creatures is a recipe for disaster. Lightning Strike
and Searing Blood
are far more efficient than this, and this will probably mostly be used to take out small critters or Lava Spike
the opponent.
Spiteful blow is quite expensive, but it can be helpful if your opponent is playing a deck with a demanding manabase. This is about as good as Sip of Hemlock
, and will probably fill a similar slot in people's decks.
Banishing Light
. The 1-spell kills all answer to anything at 3 mana. Brilliant, and will almost always be picked first. This is too good a card to miss in a format flooded with heavy-casting cost creatures and voltron machines.
Oppressive rays. 1 mana for a really annoying cost to do anything is pretty restrictive, but in the late game this can easily be a dud.Riddle of Lightning
. I have no idea about this card. It seems unreliable, but this format has big stuff going on, and this can fix your top cards as well. I just don't know.
Spite of Mogis
seems pretty good, but it defeats the purpose of being 1 mana. The scry 1 is nice, and i think if you can rack up some Voyage's End
s and Lightning Strike
s that this could find a place in your deck.
Deserter's quarters. I think this card is great. For 3 mana you put it out there, and then you can pay 6 to lock down their most important threat. Best of all, it's colourless. I reckon this is one of the best blue cards in the set. :)
Pin to the Earth is quite nice. For only 2 mana it gives blue a nice removal option. Solid card.
Thassa's ire. Requires a constant mana-investment, but is an enchantment and gives devotion. You can also tap something in their turn, then something else in your own turn, so 2 things are locked down for your combat step. Quite good.
Magma Spray
. 2 damage just to creatures is pretty poor, and the exile is barely relevant. It's a bit weak in this format.Pharika's chosen. Typhoid Rats
. Really good. enough said.
Evasion.
Akroan line breaker. If you have enough heroic support, this guy might as well just be a 4/1 intimidate. He's kind of like Kiln Fiend
with evasion, and is very dangerous, but hilariously fragile. Use with caution.
Cloaked siren. This card is very good. 3/2 flash-flying for 4? Yes please. It makes a good "removal spell" and is evasive and aggressive. Very helpful for u/w heroic, and will fill a similar slot to Chorus of the Tides
.
Bladetusk Boar
is quite similar, but you have to remember that red rarely gets evasion, and their creatures tend to diminish in size in the late game so pushing through those last few points of damage can be tough. This guy helps to rectify this problem.
Eagle of the watch. This guy is cool. Quite frankly, i'd rather him alive than dead, so the vigilance won't matter much, but if you suit this guy up with an ordeal or 2, then you'll be in business when he can venture on his path to Serra Angel
hood.
Hour of need. This card is interesting. It's primary use will probably be to upgrade your own guys, or "balance" the board, but it also triggers heroic, and makes 4/4 sphinxes for 3 mana (2 more per target), I'm not complaining.
Rise of the eagles. 6 mana for Talrand's Invocation
(for enchantment tokens) plus a scry? Not bad, but there's better stuff.
Dreadbringer lampards. A 4/2 for 5 that gives stuff intimidate is pretty good, but a bit fragile. Realistically, at this point most of your enchantments are already on the board, so Mogis's Marauder
and Gray Merchant of Asphodel
are probably better for black, (one giving evasion, and the other a 5-drop)
War-wing siren. Kinda like Wingsteed Rider
, but it's still in strike-range, so i think it's a bit worse.
Supple-line cranes are a bit clunky, but slightly more flexible 3/5 flying is still respectable, but not a star-performer.
Riptide Chimera
is interesting. It's very big, and the cost can be an upside with constellation. Fate Foretold
likes this dude, and Thassa's ire is pretty easy to re-cast. I reckon this guy will be used a quite a bit.
Triton Shorestalker
. This guy is risky, but can be very rewarding, starting the clock really early.
Whitewater Naiads
. This thing seems okay. It's decent, but doesn't break any records. To get lots of enchantments after turn 4 is a tough ask, but combined with chimera this could be pretty good. Also, bestowing Thassa's Emissary
onto it is quite brutal.
Stormchaser chimera is just a bit bad. I wouldn't be willing to splash for it, and its ability is a bit situational. If it were scry 2, i'd like it a lot more, but it's too luck-based for my liking, and i don't think it has enough power to be worth it, unless you're already in izzet colours.
Gold-forged sentinel. 4/4 flying for 6 isn't great, but colourless is great. This guy fits into any deck. I'm happy to see him in green, white, (maybe not blue), red or black, or 5-colour, as he's so easy to cast. The only problem i can see is Nessian Asp
s getting in his way.
I forgot what A and D stood for, and i'm also a bit sick of writing this.
April 18, 2014 9:50 a.m.
My point about rares is that you can't see a rare you like and be like 'OMG yes, I want to use this in limited'. You can't predict who will have them, who won't etc. So I can't make judgments about them. Do you sort of see my point?
April 18, 2014 9:55 a.m.
@trentfaris242: mybad >.<
Chariot of Victory actually looks pretty fun to use in Limited. The new white removal suite is absolutely insane. Deicide , Reprisal , Banishing Light and Armament of Nyx are all pretty badass.
I like Scourge of Fleets the most of the pre-release rares, it can be a potentially huge blowout for your opponent.
Still have my doubts about Strive. Constellation seems ok, nothing too fancy.
There's actually some decent land destruction, I quite like Desecration Plague. Even Spiteful Blow is a nice change from staring at Sip of Hemlock
April 18, 2014 10:35 a.m.
Lol i scanned over that ChiefBell. I did stick to commons/uncommons in my wall, which after posting it, i can see is scarily long.
ChiefBell says... #2
I dont have time right now though :(
April 18, 2014 6:52 a.m.