The Chain Veil
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on July 2, 2014, 12:07 a.m. by CuteSnail
More superfriends cards in M15.This is really going to be in Superfriends.http://mythicspoiler.com/m15/cards/thechainveil.html
Ohthenoises says... #3
Oh god..... I have a friend with Cromat superfriends EDH..... Shit just got real son.....
Also, Nissa + this = oh god....
July 2, 2014 12:13 a.m.
spacecoyote1313 says... #4
So can I tap 4 forests, Use nissa and her +1 to untap those forests, then use this ability with the 4 floating mana to untap those same 4 forests and gain 2 loyalty counters like nothing happened?
July 2, 2014 12:14 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #5
Am I reading this correctly that you could use this to activate walker abilities on someone else's turn?
July 2, 2014 12:15 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #7
Also, spacecoyote1313, is this you? Someone asked exactly the same thing.
"Michael Siddall
Does this mean you can tap 4 forests, untap with nissa, use that 4 floating to activate the ability to untap the same 4 forests and essentially gain 2 loyalty counters like nothing happened?"
July 2, 2014 12:17 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #9
Almost 100% certain this doesn't mean you can activate walkers' loyalty abilities at instant speed.
All it says is that you can activate abilities as if they haven't been activated this turn, doesn't modify anything else from the wordage used.
July 2, 2014 12:20 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #10
I'm tired so this may not be working in my head, but doesn't this easily go infinite with Tezzeret the Seeker or Ral Zarek 's +1 ability and Nissa, Worldwaker 's +1?
July 2, 2014 12:21 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #11
ducttapedeckbox I think it would..... That also means infinite turns with Ral.
July 2, 2014 12:21 a.m.
That's exactly what I was thinking, ducttapedeckbox. You've got infinite planeswalker activations with new Nissa, the Chain Veil, and Tezzy or Ral. Dang.
July 2, 2014 12:22 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #13
Wait, it says "once". Does that mean you can't reuse abilities?
July 2, 2014 12:22 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #14
TheHorse I wonder though. Why would they just not word it like Whip of Erebos ? "only use this as a sorcery".
The fact that that's left off combined with the fact that it says "this turn" and not "on your turn" makes me really question.
July 2, 2014 12:24 a.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #15
I mean you can activate Chain Veil's ability whenever, but that doesn't change when you can activate Planeswalker abilities.
July 2, 2014 12:28 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #16
I love this. Definitely doing a 5C Superfriends deck.
July 2, 2014 12:29 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #17
TheHorse it does say "this turn". That's where I'm having an issue. If something says you can do something "this turn" it generally means on the turn it was activated. To me it reads as granting permission to do something that you normally could not.
I think this is one of those cards that we need to wait and see what the oracle rulings have to say about it.
July 2, 2014 12:34 a.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #18
So the article that spoiled the Chain Veil was most interesting...
July 2, 2014 12:48 a.m.
What!?!?!
I'll be snagging one for E. V. I. L. as soon as possible.
July 2, 2014 1:15 a.m.
@Ohthenoises You can still only activate a Planeswalker's ability on your turn, even if you can activate the chain vail's ability on your opponents turn.
July 2, 2014 1:28 a.m.
Question... can you only activate this once per turn?
"You may activate one of its loyalty abilities once this turn..."
July 2, 2014 1:47 a.m.
I don't think there is an infinite with Tezzeret the Seeker and/or Ral Zarek because of the wording. "For each planeswalker you control, activate one of its loyalty abilities once this turn as though none of its loyalty abilities have been activated this turn." I believe this means that each ability can only be used once via the Chain Veil, but you COULD use all of a planeswalkers abilities in one turn, with enough untap effects.
July 2, 2014 1:51 a.m.
You guys focus on the once part but you're forgetting the second part: "...as though none of its loyalty abilities have been activated this turn." So the second part refutes the first part.
Still, gotta wait for some clarity on this
July 2, 2014 2:12 a.m.
tempest - The idea behind loyalty abilities is that you can only do one a turn. The second part allows you to activate another ability. HOWEVER that second part doesn't negate the fact you used one of your loyalty abilities via the chain veil. I believe the Veil "remembers" which ability you used with it, and stops you from using it again. I don't think WotC would print this card with such obvious infinites in place. We'll just have to wait for it to show up on Gatherer or in the M15 Rules FAQ.
July 2, 2014 2:17 a.m.
tempest - Here's a tweet from a judge about the chain veil. And he says it doesn't go infinite.
July 2, 2014 2:19 a.m.
WizardInTheWoods says... #26
Kiora's Follower + The Chain Veil means 3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave activations per turn?
4 with a second Follower, paid for with Kruphix, God of Horizons 's stored mana?
If this is the case, sounds fun.
July 2, 2014 2:44 a.m.
slovakattack says... #27
It seems as though you can't go infinite with the card, unless you do something silly with Ral Zarek or Venser, the Sojourner , the wording "once this turn" preventing that. However, it does seem to indicate that you can use the abilities as an instant speed. Freaky.
July 2, 2014 3:27 a.m.
I think the "once this turn" is there to prevent you from using a loyalty ability multiple times with a single instance of Chain Veil's effect. If it wasn't there, you could theoretically use the abilities as many times as you want, because it would be "as if it wasn't activated this turn". But each separate activation of Chain Veil should allow to use the ability one time. So you could go infinite with Ral Zarek or Tezzeret. Just my understanding.
July 2, 2014 3:40 a.m.
kmcree - What you just said means you CAN'T go infinite. As the Veil remembers what abilities you used with it. For an example, if you have a Kiora, the Crashing Wave and a Chain veil you can +1, -1, and -5 her in the same turn (if you have the loyalty) off of the Veil and one other ability that you use for the turn.
July 2, 2014 4:01 a.m.
There is no "Tap: Target Planeswalker becomes black and insane" ability, so 0/10.
July 2, 2014 5:46 a.m.
If I'm reading this card right:
1) The part where it says "...once this turn" prevents it from going infinite with Ral Zarek . If it didn't have that "once" and read "...you may activate one of its loyalty abilities as though none of its loyalty...," you could go infinite. However, the card itself is keeping track of this. If you have a way to blink it or play a new copy, it forgets the "once this turn" has already been used. I could be wrong, though, because it would seem that it should just read "Activate this ability only once each turn."
2) It makes it so you can activate each planeswalker you control again, but you still have to pay any loyalty costs and still can only do it whenever you could activate that planeswalker's abilities. That means that you can activate this card still at instant speed, but you won't be able to activate any of your planeswalkers unless it's one of your main phases.
July 2, 2014 6:04 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #33
With Ajani Steadfast
you can ultimate Kiora, the Crashing Wave
the turn she's played as well as lot of other planeswalkers .
July 2, 2014 7:24 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #34
Schuesseled: you sacrifice one as a state based action. This is known as the "Legend Rule". (yeah I get the "two chainz" reference, but I'm playing it straight)
July 2, 2014 7:34 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #35
sylvannos and jonhydude Then why is it worded "this turn" and not "your turn"? This wording would prevent confusion. In magic there are literally TONS of things that can change the timing of stuff. (Hypersonic Dragon lets you play sorceries as instants, and so on)
If they wanted to prevent confusion they would have written "your turn" in there because as it's written now it looks like it's granting permission.
Again, I'm waiting for the oracle text on this one.
July 2, 2014 7:45 a.m.
@Rasta_Viking29 Ajani Steadfast + The Chain Veil + Kiora, the Crashing Wave . That's a lot of mana to invest, and would take a couple turns of build-up. But if it ever happens, lololololol.
July 2, 2014 7:51 a.m.
I think some people need to relearn magic basics.
The wording "once" will only apply to that activation. A separate activation (by way of untagging it and paying the activation again), will allow for another "once".
The reason for the word "once" should be clear... if it were not there, you could use this artifact, and then activate any one ability an unlimited number of times. - The wording would be, "For each planeswalker you control, you may activate one of its loyalty abilities this turn as though none of its loyalty abilities have been activated this turn." - Thus meaning for each PW, chose one ability, and activate it an unlimited number of times this turn. (ie.: Unlimited on its own, without Ral or Tezz)
July 2, 2014 7:56 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #38
July 2, 2014 8:17 a.m.
Another thing to remember is that abilities that let you play sorcery speed effects outside your main phases ably do so by letting you play them at the time of the abilities activation. If it lets you play them "this turn", rather than right then, you must still follow normal timing restrictions.
Miracle - you can choose to play the miracle card right then even though it is a sorcery... but not 'later that turn'.
Hideaway Lands - You may play the hidden card when you resolve ability... not later that turn.
If this card said that you can use PW's abilities right then, then it would overrule the timing restrictions. However, since this only effects how many times you can play a PW's abilities, and does not force you to use the ability when you activate this artifact, the timing restrictions will remain in place. - The reason for it to be able to be used at instant speed is so that you may use it at a time where you may otherwise have mana drain from your mana pool. (Somehow got mana during your combat phase or upkeep that you can put into this if you would like.)
It's a little like using Quicken during your opponents turn... than drawing an Explore . You can Cast Explore , but you will still not be able to play a land during your opponents turn, because Explore does not change the timing restriction for playing land.
July 2, 2014 8:30 a.m.
That's how I read it, Rayenous. The "once" part is to clarify that you can only activate a PW ability once per Chain activation.
July 2, 2014 8:32 a.m.
trentfaris242 says... #41
This thing is awesome, but it can really ONLY see play in superfriends. If you lose your PW while this is out, you just start to take 2 points of damage each turn until you cast another. Very risky in a lot of decks.
July 2, 2014 9:08 a.m.
Nigeltastic says... #43
Pretty sure wizards would have to be retarded to let this go infinite that easily. Common sense says no.
July 2, 2014 9:34 a.m.
I wouldn't call having to have this + 2 specific planes walkers of 2-3 different colors in play "easily infinite".
There are many easier infinite combos out there.... ( Splinter Twin ?)
July 2, 2014 9:41 a.m.
Nigeltastic says... #45
They tend to try to avoid infinite combos in standard at least, and given how bonkers of an ability this is, I'm pretty sure wizards wants to be careful with allowing more than one activation per turn. Even just Nissa and anything that untaps permanents makes this crazy
July 2, 2014 9:52 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #46
Rayenous All I mean is this: If you look at Explore 's oracle rulings you'll see this: "3/1/2010 If you somehow manage to cast Explore when it's not your turn, you'll draw a card when it resolves, but you won't be able to play a land that turn."
I'm just saying that I'd expect something similar on this card's oracle ruling because the wording of the card itself leaves that open to interpretation. That's why I said I'm waiting for that.
Also, TheHorse, I'd hardly call that proof. He doesn't explain anything about the interaction and gives no referenceable material.
Once again, we won't know anything for certain until the set notes are released. It's not the first time that head judges have been proven wrong.
July 2, 2014 10:17 a.m.
You're confusing "once" with "an additional time"
Once means Once. Not 'Once more' or it would say "an additional" like everything else that works that way.
July 2, 2014 10:29 a.m.
Does anyone think this will see enough play in standard for it to be one of those things you just instantly devote 1-2 sideboard cards against just in case?
July 2, 2014 10:30 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #49
Devonin it doesn't JUST say "once" though. It says "once this turn as though none of its loyalty abilities have been activated this turn."
We should all just chill out, have some lemonade, and wait for the set notes/oracle rulings. Because the card can be interpreted in either way.
July 2, 2014 10:31 a.m.
Right, and if you could get mileage out of it by untapping and reactivating it, it would say "An additional time this turn as though none of its loyalty abilities have been activated this turn"
GoldGhost012 says... #2
July 2, 2014 12:08 a.m.