The Roc Rocks?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 3, 2014, 12:37 a.m. by tooTimid
Seems pretty good! Powerful 2-1, but not sure what type of deck it goes in.
Whadda you guys think?
VampireArmy says... #3
WTF wizards...."aggressive clan" my ass......seriously
September 3, 2014 12:48 a.m.
Limited bomb all round. Not sure about constructed, though.
September 3, 2014 12:49 a.m.
Probably goes into a limited deck. If this guy breaks into Constructed, it's because there's nothing better at 5 mana for WB Tokens, which I pray isn't the case.
September 3, 2014 12:49 a.m.
VampireArmy: I'm confused by your comment. How is this card not aggressive? It gives you a bonus when it enters if you attacked, that bonus is another thing to attack with, and it gives you another bonus when you attack with a whole bunch of things. Yes, five mana, but also yes, wants you to attack, so aggressive.
September 3, 2014 12:51 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #7
by the time this thing hits the field, you're either about the win the game or dead playing aggro. I'm meaning that all of the spoilers of the Mardu clan are very clrealy geared towards a midrange-control deck
September 3, 2014 12:53 a.m.
Seems very good, I think the second ability may get overlooked by the raid but it is nothing to laugh at. I think I am leaning towards Mardu after rotation and there are so many choices for the 5 drop slots. Whether I would rather play this over Zurgo Helmsmasher
, sarkhan/ stormbreath, or even ankle shanker is hard to say. I think it will definitely see standard play though.
September 3, 2014 1:01 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #9
This is a Standard bomb. It can easily race a Stormbreath Dragon . Will usually force a 2 for 1.
I found myself blocking and preventing attacks from Archangel of Thune with Stormbreath at times this Standard. It's very awkward. This guy does the same thing.
September 3, 2014 1:22 a.m.
Modern has made me terrified of 3/4 fliers. This thing produces two. It's very, very good. Essentially giving you 6 power and 8 toughness on the board AND an out if you're losing life too fast to encourage you to keep on swinging. I'd be surprised if it doesn't see play. It doesn't die to killspells because you get two - which is neat.
September 3, 2014 1:26 a.m.
I may try this as a 1 or 2 of in my bw token deck in modern. It is super powerful as a hideaway target for windbrisk heights, and a 3/4 token is nothing to laugh at. A potential 5/6 or 6/7 in bw tokens. And the second ability is relevant.
September 3, 2014 1:30 a.m.
IATEAREPUBLICAN says... #12
This plus the Mardu Ascendancy enchantment will get a bit out of hand I think, as well.
September 3, 2014 1:36 a.m.
I like this card. I don't necessarily think it is the most 'aggro' thing out there which is a little disappointing but it is definitely powerful, is good with anthems and against spot removal and has some nice angles on it. That said, I find the card very uninteresting from an aesthetic standpoint because I've been so conditioned to hate white fliers of this visual leaning because of all the Razorfoot Griffin s of the world and all their other Core Set bretheren. (Not saying those cards aren't decent or good in Limited but they tend to be really boring, IMO.)
September 3, 2014 1:53 a.m.
It is aesthetically bland isn't it? It's not a card that excited me visually and makes me want to use it.
September 3, 2014 1:54 a.m.
Agreeing whole-heartedly with the bad aesthetics. When I saw Evan Erwin's video on this in my sub box, I saw the thumbnail and thought to myself "Now, why would they give him an uncommon to talk about?"
September 3, 2014 2:07 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 "It can easily race a Stormbreath Dragon ." Putting aside that Stormbreath Dragon can just not induce the race and the rocs can't attack into it. It's a lot closer than you might think if you're comparing just the two cards, with some theoretic way to trigger Wingmate Roc and not otherwise screw with the combat math.
T5 A casts Stormbreath Dragon hit for 4 - B = 16. B casts Wingmate Roc.
T6 A hits for 4. B hits for 6 gains 2. A = 14, B = 14.
T7 A monstrous hits for 7. B hits for 6 gains 2. A = 8, B = 9.
T8 A hits for 7. B hits for 6 gains 2. A = 2, B = 4.
T9 B hits for 7. A = dead.
So in a straight race it all comes down to who is on the play. That's also assuming B had no cards in hand when going monstrous, otherwise B potentially dies T8.
September 3, 2014 2:41 a.m.
Oops, slightly screwed up the formatting for T9, but you get the idea.
September 3, 2014 2:43 a.m.
Also the fact that storm breath has pro white anyway so it's just irrelevant. It also isn't seeing much play at the moment either.
September 3, 2014 2:48 a.m.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #19
Ya know, I keep looking at this bird and just keep thinking, "Well, this seems like a good thing for Abzan. Just swing in with a token and toss out this as your win con." Given that they are supposed to be more of an attrition based control, it seems viable.
September 3, 2014 3 a.m.
Mixing up lots of cards from different guilds could give you some very interesting and effective decks. I can see that with abzan ascendancy making tokens whenever your stuff dies it would be extremely easy to trigger raid on this even in the later T5 stages of the game. The life gain is most relevant to their attrition strategy too.
September 3, 2014 3:07 a.m.
This would be really good, if Mutavault was still around.
September 3, 2014 4:26 a.m.
beakedbard says... #22
I thought Mardu was supposed to be aggro this doesn't seem like an aggro card. Is it me or does this fit in with Azban more than Mardu? Either way its still very interesting.
September 3, 2014 4:46 a.m.
It is mono-white, with a mardu mechanic so it can kind of go anywhere.
September 3, 2014 4:51 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #24
It's a shame that they didn't put a rider on the roc to help with scale - it just looks like an eagle.
That said, I find it odd that they're just naming the token 'bird' rather than 'rock'. Means if you block it with a 1/X flyer and then Bile Blight you kill it and all 1/1 Bird tokens at the same time, yes?
September 3, 2014 6:38 a.m.
Well yeh but are there any 1/1 bird tokens in standard?
September 3, 2014 6:50 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #26
Ornitharch and Rise of Eagles , Swan Song , and Aerie Worshippers Are the only ones that don't rotate, AFAIK.
September 3, 2014 6:58 a.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #27
(Most of those are 2/2 birds, actually. My bad)
September 3, 2014 6:59 a.m.
I was just wondering whether there was anything that was playable that bile blight would also hit. It appears not.
September 3, 2014 7:13 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #29
I agree that the artwork is on the uncommon level. It feels like a much improved Supply-Line Cranes . Am I the only one who doesn't like that this takes up a mythic slot though? It seems like a decent rare but nothing that I think will be more than 3-5 bucks long term if only bc of rarity. It will win drafts single handed if you see one
September 3, 2014 8:04 a.m.
6 power and 8 toughness split between two creatures with flying, that helps when you're ahead AND behind is pretty strong. It could MAYBE be a rare but I'm not sure. I think mythic could be right for this.
September 3, 2014 8:08 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #31
Yea, the more I've been staring at it for the past 5 minutes it makes a bit more sense, I think the artwork is just that underwhelming and makes it seem more meh than it should. Damn Wizards and their mind games.
September 3, 2014 8:12 a.m.
I think Mythic is too high when you look at power level. Do they think it will do so well in limited to put it to Mythic? I think rare should have been it's rarity. If this is Mythic, then Pack Rat should have been Mythic too.
Everyone is thinking best case with this dude. How many times are you going to play this guy for a single 3/4? I think more than you want to. While I think that's still pretty decent, seeing that he also gains you some life, but I get the feeling that he's a win more.
If you have more creatures and you are being the aggressor, do you really need the life gain and the extra dude at this point in the game? If you are on the defensive, do you want to kamikaze a dude to get that extra bird? If it's an irrelevant Elvish Mystic I can see that, but if you need the life and are on the defensive, you won't be attacking to gain that life.
He will be good to break stand offs if your opponent has no way to kill him and he can punch in for 3 while gaining 1. But I can't see it being that way often. It's going to Roc limited (pun intended) but I;m not sure it will see any standard play. They have already shown us many better cards that can take the 5 slot. People will try him though, so we'll see if he because a bulk mythic or not.
September 3, 2014 8:27 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #34
Slycne anytime you can force a Stormbreath Dragon to stay back and block you're in a good spot. Decks that run him are looking to finish their opponent shortly after casting him. This Roc stalls the game when staring across at the Dragon and threatens to put the game out of reach with lifegain.
September 3, 2014 8:55 a.m.
Yes you absolutely do want to kamikaze a dude, most of the time, to get a flier with 4 toughness that gains you life. 4 toughness on a flier is very very good. There are significantly more creatures doing 2 or 3 damage at the moment than there are 4.
Pack rat is only a rare because each token requires you to discard a card - it's a 1-for-1 exchange. This potentially gives you a token for 'free'. Worst case you have to throw away something else - but chances are it won't be something as significant as a 4 toughness flier.
I you pay 5 for a 3/4 flier that gains you life that's not ideal, by all means, but most of the time you'll want to throw somethign away to get a big bird.
September 3, 2014 8:57 a.m.
This compares favorably to Broodmate Dragon which was a highly playable card. As opposed to 2x 4/4 flyers for 3BRG, this is 2x 3/4 flyers + lifegain for 3WW. The single color and cheaper cost makes this more easily playable.
If any card needs alternate promo art, this would be it.
September 3, 2014 9:29 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #37
I also came here to post about Broodmate Dragon . Being 2 creatures in 1 card makes something a strong midrange/control card, because it's a lot harder to kill than a normal creature.
September 3, 2014 9:33 a.m.
InfiniteParadoX says... #38
not mythic material, the art doesn't show mythic and neither does the abilities. it's likely better as a really good rare, not a very below-average mythic
September 3, 2014 9:55 a.m.
This isn't even comparable to Broodmate Dragon. You always got two flying 4/4s out of that card and one of them was immune to Terror , which was the removal spell back then.
I can see Roc seeing standard play, but I doubt it will be the best thing to do.
I'm more concerned about limited, as this beats even planeswalkers as of pickorder. Won't show up that often, though.
September 3, 2014 10:38 a.m.
Seems like a better Mythic than Hythonia the Cruel , at least.
September 3, 2014 9:58 p.m.
Just thought I'd bring this back to say this card is now getting close to $20 on tcgplayer, and has proved to be amazing in many decks, seeing play in the pro tour.
Everyone who said this card is bad should feel bad etc etc etc.
October 13, 2014 1:46 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #46
This card won the Pro Tour. 'Nuff said.
Also, Pearl Lake Ancient isn't that bad when you clear the board repeatedly with tons of removal and Perilous Vault . I really liked the inclusion of the card, much more so than Prognostic Sphinx .
October 13, 2014 4:25 p.m.
To be honest, I think the blue black control deck was and is really bad. It's a good call for a metagame against green Devotion and Ascendancy combo, because those decks really have no chance against it.
But other than that, the deck is too clunky and unreliable. Ivan Floch wasn't happy with it either.
October 13, 2014 4:37 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #48
Oh, the deck's miserable. Against the expected metagame it was great, but that's true of any deck built by someone attending the Pro Tour. The deck just didn't have powerful enough cards to actually win games of Magic against decks that just keep bringing punches.
October 13, 2014 4:39 p.m.
By the way, confession time: Back at the launch weekend, I was teaming up with a friend for some two-headed giant and we pulled a Wingmate Roc.
We lost 1-2. We never drew into the Roc at a time, when there were creatures to trigger on the Battlefield.
Here's some general advice for future Khans of Tarkir sealed two-headed giant events:
- Don't rely on bombs. They always have removal.
- Don't cast morphs facedown after turn 10. They always have removal.
- Don't bother playing if you're behind on board. You will never have removal.
- Don't cast Throttle onto a 2/5. It's really embarassing and you will have to give your pissed friend said Wingmate Roc to make up for it.
julianjmoss says... #2
Something with Ajani's Pridemate . I think the roc is very good although the art doesnt really convey mythic rare to me.
September 3, 2014 12:48 a.m.