The Titans Return!!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 30, 2015, 6:25 a.m. by Jimmy_Chinchila
A new version of Ulamog has been spoiled! I think it's safe to assume the other two will be coming. Good news, they have different names to comply with the legends rule (great now Tron players get two Emrakuls). Bad news, no more annihilator. Art looks cool though. And milling for 20 is nothing to scoff at...
Thoughts? I think this set is gonna be insane with what's been spoiled so far. Eldrazi Titans, full art lands, new dual lands, multiple new mechanics, the return of landfall; I'm personally super excited.
Emrakul probably won't be coming back.. She's dead. And from what I recall, didn't Kozilek leave the plane? Could come back I spose.
August 30, 2015 7:43 a.m.
The other two left the plane.
They most likely won't be in this block.
The next few blocks will probably involve hunting them down and trying to take care of them, so new versions eventually, just not now.
August 30, 2015 7:46 a.m.
borosgruul2 says... #5
The discussion of the state or location of the Eldrazi is always a toss up due to vagueness. Also, this almost always ends in some debate with no real winner due to stubbornness. I will try to stay clear of that but, the Eldrazi are all still very alive and still trapped on Zendikar (not so much trapped against there will as they are trapped against their nature.[ The hedrons are made of hyper-condensed mana to which the eldrazi, by their own natural law, consume until there is none left on the plane in which they are located on]) Many people believe EMrakul is dead due to the art on Near-Death Experience. This is one of Emrakuls spawns, not Emrakul itself. While Nissa did try to deactivate the "hedron prison" but she did not fully understand it's/their purpose. So do I think we'll get reprints of the other two? DAMN SKIPPY. If for some reason they don't, they will be basically spitting in every Zendikar fanboy/girls face. Not good for money.
August 30, 2015 8:10 a.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #6
Tyqar I'm pretty sure that Emrakul is not dead. She and Kozilek are simply roaming the Blind Eternities.
August 30, 2015 8:23 a.m.
Does the presence of a card called Channeler of Kozilek increase the chances that Kozilek shows up?
August 30, 2015 9:25 a.m.
Channeler of Kozilek is evidence of Kozilek returning. We can only hope that there's a card referencing Emrakul in the set as well.
Maybe Ulamog gets killed in Battle for Zendikar (he doesn't have a "shuffle back into library" clasue, so it seems he can die now) and Kozilek and Emrakul find out about it through some cosmic means (maybe a burst of energy explodes from Ulamog's corpse and radiates outward through the Blind Eternites, etc.) So, the two titans return to Zendikar to avenge their fallen Titan and take over Zendikar once and for all.
August 30, 2015 9:33 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #9
I'm pretty sure the new Ulamog is going to get banned in Commander. His "when X attacks" ability is way too damn strong. Couple that with being indestructible, meaning exile is the only way to get rid of him (which by the way, was the only way of really getting rid of him in original ROE). I was going to post a thread about this but I figured I can get shot down in this thread just as easily, not to mention not clogging up the forums any more than necessary.
August 30, 2015 10:58 a.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #10
I don't think he's getting banned. He costs 10 (drawback one), He has to hit the board and not get countered (2), and he has to attack before that ability resolves (3).
The decks that would love to play him would be mill and they don't have a great ramp engine. A lot of decks will play him for his ETB effect I think more than anything else. Even though he's indestructible there are plenty of ways in commander to deal with him.
August 30, 2015 11:19 a.m.
Guys, Ulamog has a "When ~ is cast" trigger not an ETB. Even if he gets countered, you're still exiling two permanents.
August 30, 2015 11:23 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #12
First off this is EDH I'm talking about. 10 mana can be achieved at earliest T2 or T3, and with even a small amount of ramp we're talking T6 or T7 at the latest. That's still set-up phase for most EDH players. T6 Ulamog cast, exile two lands that YOU choose? Too stronk. Second, his ability triggers on cast, not on ETB. Same as with the original Eldrazi Titans. Third, so what if he has to attack? But yeah you're right, mass/targeted haste effects are completely nonexistent in EDH.
August 30, 2015 11:27 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #13
Where is the Titan lore found? It was mentioned 2 left Zendikar...
August 30, 2015 11:45 a.m.
PepsiAddicted says... #14
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Ulamog Z'endikar wgah'nagl fhtagn."
August 30, 2015 1:03 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #16
Emrakul is not female. They really don't have genders at least as we know them. Or that Wizards has said anyway. The correct pronoun is pretty much "it".
August 30, 2015 2:41 p.m. Edited.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #17
Technically speaking, the Eldrazi titans are sexless, but Emrakul was honored as a goddess by the tribes of Zendikar, so she is referred to as a female, while the other two are males.
August 30, 2015 2:46 p.m.
shinobigarth says... #18
Being referred to as a goddess by a couple tribes on one plane doesn't make one female. So it's not improper to refer to them as it.
August 30, 2015 2:53 p.m.
If you look up if kozilek and emrakul left zendikar all you will find are people talking about how it is all just based on assumptions and that there has never been any evidence of the two titans leaving the plane. The reason people think they are gone is because for some reason ulamog "activated" first and he is ravaging the plane,I have a feeling we will see the other two. Itd make no sense not to.
August 30, 2015 3:16 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #20
The new Ulamog is absolutely disgusting and I'm a bit miffed about it. Seriously, Wizards? Annihilator is too strong so your solution is something that exiles an entire library in a few turns? What the actual fuck?
I really do hope this gets banned in EDH; I'm already very sick of seeing Eldrazi, and unlike Kozilek and old Ulamog (which irritate me personally but are not actually broken) I think you could make a strong argument for banning it.
August 30, 2015 4:34 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #21
I'm honestly fixing to start a petition to get Ulamog banned in Commander. This is some bullshit. Every time I see that fucking card I get more pissed about it. ComradeJim270 is absolutely right. If this is what Wizards meant by neutering Annihilator, then they're doing a piss-poor job of it. Lore-wise, it's fucking fantastic, just like Annihilator originally was. Mechanics-wise, it's fucking shit. Oh look, just like Annihilator.
Wizards genuinely has not learned. They refuse to fucking learn.
August 30, 2015 4:47 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #22
Though ComradeJim270 I do have to say this: If Deadeye Navigator isn't banned, the chances of anything else getting banned is slim to none.
August 30, 2015 4:49 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #23
Deadeye Navigator isn't a Legendary Creature. You Path it, it goes away. Ulamog as a commander can keep coming back, and you know a deck that runs it as a commander is going to be stuffed full of rocks to do that.
If Braids and Rofellos can be banned because the RC doesn't want a separate list for banned commanders, this could be too.
Then there's the fact that colors other than blue and white have (off the top of my head) a grand total of one reliable answer each for a resolved Ulamog. All of those are shut off if you give it shroud or hexproof.
Let me know about that petition.
August 30, 2015 5:01 p.m.
Greendawg81 says... #24
Yay more infinite ulamog shenanigans for my Animar deck :D
August 30, 2015 5:04 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #25
I think he'll be just as much a problem in Modern. Tron decks will surely run him, Windbrisk Heights decks will play him. Path to Exile is the only regularly-played card that can deal with him. What's worse is the library is exiled so no more shuffling graveyard into library.
August 30, 2015 5:08 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #26
It's bullshit. Everyone knows it. R/G Tron isn't going to run anything else now, with possibly the exception of Wurmcoil Engine and that's just too much value to pass up.
August 30, 2015 5:10 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #27
He's powerful and might do something in Modern, but I think Tron would rather just play Emrakul. In EDH, you can potentially always have access to this bullshit. It's potentially format-warping.
August 30, 2015 5:11 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #28
Unlike Annihilator though, this exile ability is restricted to only Ulamog. The rest of the brood lineage get Ingest, which is much, much, much weaker and more "fair." Annihilator was busted because (in addition to the actual sacrificing ability itself) there were a slew of creatures that carried it, even at common level.
I don't really understand why people are upset about Ulamog getting an upgrade. Yeah, it's really powerful. Yeah, it's teetering on the edge of being too powerful. You know what else is really powerful and teetering on the edge of being too powerful? Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. That's banned in EDH, and Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger most likely will be too. Must be an Eldrazi trait. But it's like getting angry at the fact that Jace, the Mind Sculptor is an upgraded Jace Beleren. I'd rather get excited about the fact that it's an amazingly powerful card with the potential for great and destructive things.
That said, I completely agree that Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is pretty busted in EDH. It would probably have been fine if it was exile 2 permanents OR exile top 20 when attacking. Together is just nuts. Plz ban.
August 30, 2015 5:11 p.m. Edited.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #29
just out of curiosity, why are Kozilek and Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre legal in EDH, but Emrakul is not? I think it would be cool if every Titan was banned, like they're too powerful for any mage to control.
August 30, 2015 5:16 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #30
Being able to take an extra turn when casting an uncounterable 15/15 with Annihilator 6 that can't be blocked or targeted by colors is just too much, even for a stereotypically battlecruiser format.
August 30, 2015 5:20 p.m. Edited.
ComradeJim270 says... #31
@GoldGhost012: I agree. If it's in Modern? That's fine. I don't think it'll make a huge impact there. In EDH? The thing really should be banned.
@Jimmy_Chinchila: Emrakul is much more powerful once on the field, very difficult to answer and does something very powerful just by coming in. It's just too much. The other two are much easier to answer and don't completely fuck the game when they resolve.
August 30, 2015 5:20 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #32
@GoldGhost012: It can be blocked. Common misconception. You can chump it with a 1/1 spirit token if you want. If you're not playing tokens? Well... sorry.
August 30, 2015 5:22 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #33
You're right, I mistyped. But still, with its huge P/T, it basically doesn't die to anything that's not deathtouch or a boardwipe, and even then it comes back.
August 30, 2015 5:24 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #34
Yep. White can hit it with Detention Sphere, Oblivion Ring, Journey to Nowhere, etc. Black can hit it with Oubliette or something like Royal Assassin. But if you don't have that stuff at the time you're screwed. And the enchantments can be removed... which causes it to ETB for another extra turn.
August 30, 2015 5:28 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #36
ComradeJim270 wrong. the extra turn only is granted when he's cast, not when he ETB's. coming back in with O-Ring or the like won't give you another extra turn.
Jimmy_Chinchila or Stranglehold, that works too.
August 30, 2015 5:34 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #37
You're still staring down a 15/15 annihilator 6 that's very hard to get rid of. So now we've got a 10/10 indestructible creature for 
less that exiles a fifth of someone's deck when it swings and takes out two permanents on the way in.
August 30, 2015 5:36 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #38
@canterlotguardian: Ah, right you are. Haven't seen the spaghetti in a while.
August 30, 2015 5:37 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #39
Since the Spawn tokens have become Scion tokens it woulda been cool if they were like 2/2s or added 2 colorless mana or something.
August 30, 2015 5:37 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #40
canterlotguardian oh that's a cool card, never'd seen it before.
August 30, 2015 5:40 p.m.
To back up my earlier post about the other eldrazi not being on the plane...
Maro posted it on his twitter;
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/127981513903/so-i-found-a-lore-conflict-with-a-spoiled-eldrazi#notes
August 30, 2015 11:36 p.m.
No reason to ban it in EDH. There are more powerful things to be done with 10 mana. Making him your commander gives you access to none of the five colors, making your cardpool for the deck significantly smaller than those around you.
Every color has a way of dealing with this. That certain ones are worse in doing so, is a larger issue in edh that is difficult to rectify for single color decks without trampling on color identity.
August 31, 2015 8 a.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #43
I wonder if the people shouting for the Ban Hammer play Multiplayer EDH or Duel.
In our multiplayer games Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre has been cast frequently and yes hes a dick but in almost every game SOMEONE has been able to take him out or neuter him before the turn comes back around.
Sure there are ways to give haste, and sure 10 mana on turn 3-4 is possible, but its not guaranteed in EDH every game not by a long shot... to say with any kind of certainty that you will have a haste enabler, 10 mana AND Ulamog in your hand (being a commander not withstanding) is impossible. Thats why I love the format.
If my opponent casts something that the table can't respond to because the card is simply OP then shame on wizards. If my opponent casts something that the table can't respond to because we are not prepared, shame on us I say.
In Duel commander I can see him being much more of a pain in the arse because you KNOW when he hits those two permanents are going to be yours but in multiplayer it offers a lot of room for political maneuvering.
August 31, 2015 2:06 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #44
Multiplayer, LittleBlueHero. And this is not Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. That card is irritating, but easily kept in check. This card, much less so. Losing five permanents and having them in a zone where you can get them back is meh. Losing over a fifth of your deck and having them in the exile zone is back-breaking. This does the latter, for one less mana. The power level is not remotely comparable. It makes more sense to compare this to Emrakul than to the older Ulamog.
The fact that it can be a commander is very relevant. You can't just dismiss it like that. Braids, Cabal Minion and Rofellos are both banned because they can be commanders and the RC no longer keeps a "banned as commander" list. The fact that several colors have virtually no answer to it if it resolves is also an inherent problem in the format.
I'm not sure how things go in your playgroup, but mine is pretty cutthroat, and I'd expect someone to have a solid plan to keep this thing on the board before playing it. Will that always be the case? No... this is EDH. But for the same reason it's very possible nobody will have answers to "put Lightning Greaves on Ulamog, swing at you.... exile a quarter of your library". In many colors there's a possibility that having this swing at you just exiled your answers.
August 31, 2015 3:14 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #45
There's an extraordinary difference between losing cards from your library and losing permanents. Losing permanents is far more crippling because it affects what is immediately available to you and puts you in a definitively worse position than every other player. You can survive getting milled for 20 for a few turns before you're in immediate danger. On top of that, you can chump block the new Ulamog because you don't lose any creatures pre-block.
If you're going to demand an honest comparison between cards, you should also honestly represent how the differences impact the game. The new Ulamog can hardly be denounced as a format-warping mistake right out of the gate.
August 31, 2015 3:33 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #46
A fair point. I'm not as disgusted with it as canterlotguardian seems to be. I'm ok (well, not really but I can live with it) with this thing in the 99, because as it's been pointed out it requires a lot more setup then. But it is a legendary creature. Someone could have reliable access to this thing, and that's a lot more troubling.
I may be thinking of this from my own perspective because I tend to play decks that aren't particularly bothered by losing a few permanents. We'll see what kind of impact this thing has, but I don't expect it to be a positive one.
August 31, 2015 3:40 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #47
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm just not all that worried about him honestly. I may change my tune if he wrecks me all the time but I plan to be prepared.
Colorless EDH is not impossible but it definitely isn't as strong as other decks as it lacks access to a LOT of good cards. It also ramps poorly. If someone is running ole' Ulmog as the commander A.They just painted a huge target on their face and B.Are going to have a much harder time casting it than if they ran it in the 99 in a Gx deck. I don't see someone running Ulmog as a commander being all that successful in multiplayer scenarios, if they were I think we would have already seen more colorless decks with the current version at the helm.
Colorless Answers: Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Spine of Ish Sah, Perilous Vault, Icy Manipulator effects etc.
White Answers: Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Condemn, Oblivion Ring, Terminus etc.
Blue Answers: Anything that taps him down and keeps him that way, all counterspells, Polymorphist's Jest type effects etc.
Black Answers: Any and all hand destruction (unless hes the commander), Any and all sac effects etc.
Red Answers: Chaos Warp, Apocalypse, Decree of Annihilation, Warp World or even running cards like Insurrection (which most red decks do anyway) and running sac enablers like Ashnod's Altar etc.
Green Answers: Lignify, Song of the Dryads, The Great Aurora, Vow of Wildness...
Any of these colors along with the colorless removal available offer plenty of ways to deal with him and ALOT of them are cards worth running so its not like you are playing shite cards for the fun of it.
I get that he destroys two permanents the second he is cast but at mythic for 10 mana I would hope to have some sort of impact even if my card doesn't stick around.
Its a great card, just don't think its banworthy.
August 31, 2015 5:37 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #48
Colorless EDH decks are the unrequited king of infinite mana combos, with possibly the sole exception of mono-U artifact decks. And if you're building with Newlamog in mind even in the tiniest bit, you're going to want to drop him with a fierceness, so you're going to be prepared with ways to do just that. Also the whole "if you can't deal with him, then you're a shitty deck builder" argument is bullshit IMO. Are you telling me that I have to only build toolbox decks just so I have a remote chance of having exactly what I need to deal with literally every situation out there?
I guess at the end of the day, it's all pointless anyways because we have no say in what the RC bans or doesn't ban. We're just the players. What are we going to do? Stop buying sealed product/singles so that those cards don't come into our playgroups? That's useless. The RC gives less than a shit about what sealed product/singles we buy. And unless they invite our opinions on the banlist (which they never will because of the incredible amount of variance and vehemence in people's beliefs), they won't care about what a select few who bitch and complain have to say about the format anyways. So maybe I won't make that petition after all. I don't know.
August 31, 2015 5:46 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #49
Maybe. I've seen some really crazy thing happen with colorless lists. Including a T3 Ulamog, though that's not a common scenario. Do recall though that Metalworker is no longer banned.
There are answers to it, sure. There are also ways you could answer Emrakul (some of which actually don't work on this thing). There's really answers to just about everything. That doesn't mean you'll always have those answers. I'd also like to point out that a lot of these things you're pointing out are pretty nasty stuff. Blue and white shouldn't have a problem; but in black, I don't see much hand disruption in multiplayer due to the card advantage loss it usually represents. A lot of playgroups are really down on mass LD which is a result of a lot of those red cards... which also have the problem of utterly demolishing the board or in the case of Warp World just being incredibly frustrating for the entire table. A lot of this stuff is also shut off by hexproof and shroud.
I don't think a card that requires many decks to fuck up the entire game to get rid of it before it starts exiling whole libraries is a healthy thing to have in someone's command zone.
August 31, 2015 5:56 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #50
I would agree to a point. If I start seeing him get dropped from the CZ regularly 4-5 ish turns in then yeah, thats a huge issue. But from what I have seen (my local meta obviously) doing that consistently is gonna be tough. Especially if people know hes your commander they will target the crap out of you as early as possible to make sure Ulmog never hits the table.
I knew a guy that always got pissed because he would get taken out early running Reaper King. He could get him out early and start killing permanents like nobodies business... after a couple games like that he rarely made it to the late rounds.
Its all a meta thing really and how you and your playgroup react to things. I don't think he needs to be banned but I wouldn't bat an eye if he was either... Unless everyone I know builds an Ulamog deck the card won't bother me much.
CChaos says... #2
He is back!
August 30, 2015 6:30 a.m.