The Titans Return!!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 30, 2015, 6:25 a.m. by Jimmy_Chinchila
A new version of Ulamog has been spoiled! I think it's safe to assume the other two will be coming. Good news, they have different names to comply with the legends rule (great now Tron players get two Emrakuls). Bad news, no more annihilator. Art looks cool though. And milling for 20 is nothing to scoff at...
Thoughts? I think this set is gonna be insane with what's been spoiled so far. Eldrazi Titans, full art lands, new dual lands, multiple new mechanics, the return of landfall; I'm personally super excited.
canterlotguardian says... #2
That's also kind of shit. It comes down to either "don't build what you want, build what other people want you to build" or "build what you want, but don't expect to be able to play Magic for more than a few turns before the others gangbang you out of the game and you just sit around watching everyone have fun doing the thing you were trying to have fun doing". Neither of those situations contributes well to a group's health, much less individual players. It forces players into playing "group-friendly decks". If your meta is hyper-competitive, then yeah it's fine, you'll just fall right in with the regulars. But those hyper-competitive playgroups are very few and very far between. Most playgroups I've encountered run low to medium on the competitive scale, and they wouldn't take kindly to decks with the power level of Newlamog.
August 31, 2015 7:49 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #4
Even in a competitive group the thing looks like it would be pretty irritating. But it's more worrying on the social level than on a purely mechanical one. It's in the realm of Iona, Shield of Emeria: if you play it outside of a competitive group you're ruining the game for everyone there.
August 31, 2015 8:09 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
I'm honestly still not seeing sufficient cause to be on a ban crusade. Everything at this point is boiling down to knee-jerk dislike or mischaracterizations of how powerful Ulamog is. The actual issue seems to be acceptability within the playgroup, which is solved by decency and an understanding of the social context.
August 31, 2015 8:20 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #6
I guess so. Like everyone's been saying, the RC won't ban it more than likely so I'll just get off my soapbox. My playgroup will probably end up house-rule banning it anyways, so it won't be much of an issue after that.
August 31, 2015 8:32 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #7
In my experience "decency and an understanding of the social context" are far, far from guaranteed. It can be hard to even start a conversation about them.
August 31, 2015 8:37 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #8
Both of those points are true, but the unlikelihood of an official ban doesn't preclude anyone from discussing it, provided they have legitimate reasons. And the social context is often hard to discuss only when there is an underlying issue with it. Of course, that's precisely when it needs to be discussed.
August 31, 2015 8:47 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #9
Epochalyptik: To be clear, it is specifically this thing in the command zone that worries me. That sounds like a good way to ensure only one person at the table (if that) is enjoying the game. You're probably right about my overstating its power level from a purely mechanical standpoint, but it does do something pretty crazy that no other commander can do on its own. Oona can exile your library, sure... but needs a lot of mana to do it.
And the social thing is not always an option to discuss. I play with a lot of different people. I'm not playing with all the same people every week, so the opportunity to discuss this stuff is not always available. The idea of sitting down for a game that turns into an obnoxious game of whack-a-'Mog and feels like a waste of my time does not sound like something I'm into, and I could easily stumble right into that without having much opportunity for discussion.
Usually the only thing I can be sure of is that I'm not going to see cards that are on the banned list. Everything else is a distinct possibility. So I'm not at all looking forward to playing games that end up centering around this damn thing.
September 1, 2015 12:49 a.m.
DeathChant17 says... #10
I like this newlamog. He's a reason to bring back tucking.
WHICH SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN ERADICATED!
September 1, 2015 12:50 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #11
Holy shit, Oblivion Sower doesn't specify how the lands were exiled...cast this guy, doesn't even matter if he's countered, after a Newlamog attack, and choose lands from 24 exiled cards!!!! Talk about a landfall trigger!!
Oblivion Sower + Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
September 2, 2015 midnight
Not nearly powerful enough for an EDH ban. Having him as a Commander makes him slightly more reliable to get some exiling off, but at 10/12/14 mana, when you can only play colourless cards in the deck, he's so clearly telegraphed that you literally just keep one of your many removal spells sitting ready to go.
The whole ""If you can't deal with him, you built a bad deck" is bullshit" line sort of misses the point. Yes, not everybody builds a deck full of good removal. If nobody does, you're going to find far more degenerate things going on that just milling 20 cards trying to be applied to 3 other people before somebody gets some removal.
If you choose to build a deck around just proactively doing a thing, with nothing in it to be reactive, you basically are committing to just racing what somebody else is doing, and that's your choice.
My main EDH deck has 7 ways to get rid of the new Ulamog, plus six or seven ways to tutor up or recur at least a couple of those effects, and I don't remotely consider my deck to be removal heavy. Efficient spot removal to keep large threats in check is sort of what EDH is all about.
September 10, 2015 8:47 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #16
So we've see Ulamog and his progeny, and we've seen Kozilek's progeny but as far as I can tell we have yet to see Emrakul's progeny.
I'm assuming Ulamog will be destroyed/entrapped at the end of this set, possibly relating to a Sea Gate. I think this will trigger Kozilek's return in the next set. I'm not entirely convinced we'll even see Emrakul or its progeny in this block... Possibly to leave the story open-ended for future blocks.
Nice to see mythic rare colorless Eldrazi that aren't the Titans, as if the minions have grown stronger over time. Winnower looks really powerful.
September 10, 2015 4:32 p.m.
allthingsMTG says... #17
Devonin you have to take in consideration the cards that say "target creature gets hexproof/shroud" and the fact that when he exiles stuff, there is always the probability that he exiles your removal spell from your deck. Just saying "put more removal in your deck" doesn't work cause newlamog exiles quite a LARGE amount of cards from your deck so yeah not trying to bash, just trying to represent both sides of the coin
September 29, 2015 8 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #18
allthingsMTG that's a good point, if you don't have your response in hand there's a good chance he'll hit it with his exile. And you only have a few turns to find it before you're milled out. The upside is that it may not just be one person looking for that removal but 3. I imagine laying him out as your commander will immediately make you the main target at the table, like playing Kaalia of the Vast. One on one it will of course be much tougher to win, but perhaps the goal should be stopping them from hitting 10 mana rather than responding to Ulamog when they do. Of course things like Quicksilver Amulet make that tougher. Heck even Sol Ring and Thran Dynamo gets you more than half way there
September 29, 2015 8:09 p.m.
allthingsMTG says... #19
Another problem, exile removal or bounce and counter are the only removal that works since newlamog and oldlamog are the same in that they are indestructible
September 29, 2015 8:12 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #20
Having now gotten some familiarity with how he works in EDH, newlamog is kind of underwhelming. He has a minimal impact on the board state compared to the old one.
September 29, 2015 8:40 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #21
I built a Newlamog commander deck, Hunger Strike to see how it would play, he doesn't do much at first but even sticking around one turn can make things difficult. But in the same regard playing a deck filled with Kozilek, Karn and the like, a commander that doesn't come down early at all or impact the rest of the team can be less threatening than many things you'll play before him.
I appreciate the EDH discussion, as it is one of the 3 formats I play, but anyone have thoughts regarding the Standard or even Modern impact? Could he see play in Tron or Sultai/Esper Control in type 2?
September 29, 2015 10:19 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #22
I doubt that the fact that spawn from Kozilek and Emrakul's broods remain on Zendikar is evidence that those titans shall return to the plane; those scions merely remained behind when their progenitors left.
WotC clearly wishes to save the other two titans for later in the story, to maximize the threat of the Eldrazi. Given that Ulamog and its lineage alone are sufficient to devastate Zendikar, and the fact that Ulamog is the least powerful of the three titans, I expect that the battles against the other two shall be as massive as is this one, or possibly even more so.
September 29, 2015 10:42 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #23
@Jimmy_Chinchila: I think Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre is a much, much more powerful commander. Annihilator 4 is a hell of a lot more potent than exiling part of someone's library. Getting out old Ulamog on turn 3 or so (which can be done consistently) means you probably win. Getting out new Ulamog means you need to swing about four or five times per opponent to do that, assuming they don't do anything about him. He's very slow. If you want to exile everyone's library, Oona, Queen of the Fae would do that much faster and much more easily.
I'm sure people are already brewing with him for Standard, though I have no idea what they'll actually do with the thing. 
is a lot in a set with such poor ramp, and we're losing a lot of the really good ramp with Theros. Control decks have better finishers, aggro decks don't want it. Maybe some kind of midrange ramp deck will try it. He does have a very relevant ability if you can get him on the board and keep him there, so I'd be surprised if nobody tried this and think that's where he's most likely to find a home.
As for Tron, I doubt it but it's not out of the question. They have Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Something that costs , has less impact than Ugin or Emrakul, can easily be countered, has no evasion and doesn't get to do its big thing just by showing up seems like a poor choice. Ugin and Karn can do something as soon as they hit the board, Emrakul is difficult to stop from hitting the board, difficult to remove, and pretty much wins the game. Newlamog gets rid of a couple of things and then stands there scratching his butt for a turn until he eats a Path to Exile.
September 29, 2015 11:47 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #24
ComradeJim270 lol I love the visual of Newlamog scratching his butt standing around holy shit lol
September 30, 2015 12:29 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #25
Well it's more like he goes "RAWR I'M AN ELDRAZI" and eats some things, then goes to crash on an extremely large couch long enough for someone to show up and toss him out the door.
Glad to know my turns of phrase are appreciated, though!
September 30, 2015 2:22 a.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #26
Lol.
So with the whole set spoiled, we know Emrakul hasn't been seen in a while but some of her brood remains. Kozilek has a few brood in this set, but I don't recall any mention of where he's at. I'm certain well get a Newzilek in Oath but don't think there'll be any Emraknewl in this block
September 30, 2015 12:03 p.m.
TheNextRedDude says... #27
So, who among realized you just necroposted like crazy? Ulamog eats those who do not check dates.
September 30, 2015 6:15 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #28
TheNextRedDude what's necroposting? When a zombie or a necromancer posts something? :)
September 30, 2015 7:45 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #29
I don't wanna get eaten and processed into dust...
September 30, 2015 7:46 p.m.
DeathChant17 says... #30
Necroposting means reviving an old thread by commenting on it.
allthingsMTG necro'd the thread by posting on it 9/29. The last post before his was from 9/10.
Almost 3 whole weeks.
September 30, 2015 11:07 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #31
DeathChant17 Oh lol... How long till a post is dead? A week? I never thought to look oops
September 30, 2015 11:12 p.m.
captainawesome3 says... #32
I pulled him in the prerelease, and casted him once in my edh deck. I agree that he is powerful, but he is also fun (for the person who casts him). I think he is not format-breaking, but is a insane commander. For these reasons, I think that he should be banned as a commander, along with braids and rofellos. I don't think he will be too annoying in standard, but with formats with a lot of ramp, he could become a problem.
October 1, 2015 4:28 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #35
I don't think he comes close to the format-warping absurdity that is Rofellos, or the sheer misery of Braids. I'm rather less concerned about Newlamog in EDH and for the most part I'd rather be staring down the new one than the old. The new one is just... underwhelming. Way too slow.
I'd actually be pretty amused if someone had it in the 99 against my Lazav deck. If I've already milled them heavily, then it hits their yard and Lazav copies it, and then I steal it on their turn... I'm probably going to knock them out of the game with double Newlamog (yes, you can do this with Lazav, I've had to explain this to many people) as soon as I get to combat. That's hilarious.
So, looking forward to that happening.
October 2, 2015 6:06 a.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #36
Newlamog isn't that dominant. It's the best of the 10 mana eldrazi from the new set, it's not better than Ugin, it's not better than Jace, and it's not entirely unstoppable. Every card is good in certain situations, some cards are better than others because they're good in more situations, and some are better because they are very good in a very likely situation. If you know people are playing something incredibly powerful, you can prepare yourself to deal with it. However, Magic is really fun because no matter what you do to win, there's always a little bit of luck involved. Many different decks will win the game if they start with Sol Ring and Mana Vault in their opening hand, regardless of how much money or thought was put into the deck. If you play in a big group where everyone has huge combos and win cons, one of the best strategies is control through attrition. Instead of packing your deck with card draw, counterspells, sweepers and removal, focus on worldly effects that make it harder for things to happen (for EVERYONE). If you're facing a lot of control decks, then you need protection, speed and evasion, and if you're facing aggro, you need fast removal, solid value cards and possibly some hasty mana ramp. No one deck beats every other deck out there, it's very much a rock/scissors/paper type game, but with more advanced options.
ComradeJim270 says... #1
My meta has a huge variance in power levels. It's also kind of huge in terms of overall size, I often play with people I've never even met using decks I've never seen before. I would not be surprised to see decks that could drop him early and often, and I wouldn't be surprised if other decks at the table have no way to prevent that (and I don't particularly want it all to be on me).
In such an environment this card has potential to be extremely disruptive. I agree that it's too early to call, but I don't predict things will go well with this.
August 31, 2015 6:19 p.m. Edited.