War of the Spark
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 8, 2019, 11:27 a.m. by spacecoyote1313
Im not sure if people pay much attention to the story, but war of the spark sounds like an epic finally to the current story. What does everyone think will happen?
I think the gatewatch fends bolas off for a while (a few people my die in the fight) and eventually Ugin shows up to fight his twin. So with the combined power of the gatewatch and ugin they might be able to win. However, it might be like a stranger things scenario and the only way ugin can remove bolas (notice how I don't say kill) would be to removing himself as well. Could we see another flip walker, bolas into ugin? Perhaps meld makes a comeback (but it seems to be eldrazi related).
So what are your thoughts, how does the go for Bolas and the Gatewatch?
AgentGreen says... #3
They confirmed that there will be 36 walkers in this set; ALL will have a card.
It is highly unlikely we will see 36 true planeswalker cards
March 8, 2019 noon
AgentGreen - while I agree they will not have 36 walkers, I think Rosewater said they were going to be doing something new and different with this set. I would not be surprised if this was a "Planeswalker matters" set, where they have a number of Planeswalkers printed at various rarities. Since we've had several artifacts-matter and enchantments-matter sets, I figure they will eventually have a Planeswalkers-matter set, and can't think of a better set with which to do this.
Granted, while I would not be surprised, I am also not expectant this will occur, and would rather it did not. I find planeswalkers to be the most dull permanent type, and keeping track of all the new loyalty abilities at prerelease will be a bit of a nightmare.
As for the story, I expect Bolas will be defeated by Vraska, who does not currently know that she and Jace were allies (I'm proud of Jace--he managed to erase someone's memories other than his own for once!), and Liliana, who I expect will figure out some way out of her contract.
I will be thoroughly disappointed in Liliana and Gideon become an item, which I feared they were setting up in the Dominaria story. Liliana is a pretty complex, decent character; Gideon, on the other hand, not so much.
I do not think Ugin will show up himself, but I think he will play a part in the downfall of Bolas.
Overall, it should be pretty exciting. Looking forward to seeing how they end the story. Hopefully they will move away from the Gatewatch after this event--I've been rather tired of them for quite a while.
March 8, 2019 12:14 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #5
cdkime Sorry pal; but they did confirm they are going to have 36 walkers.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/closer-look-stained-glass-planeswalkers-2019-03-08?fbclid=IwAR1K03J1B_JUUT1nuLMSl6GI-l7F3y8CyVw-8UO-FMia52bQaLq3T0kUdJo
March 8, 2019 12:17 p.m.
AgentGreen - Yikes! That’s going to be really frustrating to keep track of at release. I hope they pull it off effectively, and it certainty should lead to some different matches. I know a couple people who will probably sit this release out though based on this information.
Hypothetically all 36 could fit in the Rare/Mythic slots, so I suppose everyone will be likely to have one or two in their decks. That might mitigate some of my concerns.
March 8, 2019 12:32 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #7
Can't wait for the green ones. Mono Green Prison Forever!
March 8, 2019 12:39 p.m.
AgentGreen says... #8
cdkime I forsee the mythic slots to be occupied by the main players of the story (Bolas and co, and The Gatewatch + Nissa and Vivi)
March 8, 2019 12:47 p.m.
I think there might be 36 confirmed in the story, but Idk about each one getting a card. For example, the walkers who were supposed to be overseas promo cards are in there. I think those are the 36 known living walkers.
Although, if all 36 are in there, it means a new Tibalt card.
March 8, 2019 1:20 p.m.
Although having 36 might work color wise too:
10 tri-color walkers or 1 for each tri-color combo (or maybe duplicates of the dual colors)
10 dual color walkers or 1 for each dual color combo
15 mono colored walkers or 3 for each monocolored
A colorless planeswalker (Either Ugin or Karn)
That way, then ensure that not only does each guild get it's own planeswalker, each real strategy does as well.
March 8, 2019 1:24 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #11
I like that theory dbpunk.
3 new Mono green Planeswalkers! This is heaven!
March 8, 2019 1:37 p.m.
Every character in the trailer that was featured in stained glass will be getting a new Planeswalker card. 36 in the set, and each pack will contain one walker. This set is going to be nutty
March 8, 2019 1:58 p.m.
PlatinumOne says... #13
we should have gotten a new Ugin a while back already when they revealed he was bolas's twin. but at least its finally happening
March 8, 2019 3:34 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #14
So I guess we missed some story where Sorin and Nahiri got 'Unstoned'? Ugin most likely... And why no Garruk? New upcoming main villian perhaps?
Also... any ideas on who the Darth Vader looking mofo is?
March 8, 2019 4:26 p.m.
Ok, so names and possible colors for the new upcoming planeswalkers with confirmation on which one each one is:
Samut: RGx, most likely RGW.
Nicol Bolas: UBR
Ashiok: UBx
New girl: Looks like a serious Ux variation. Probably specializes in mind magic similar to Jace.
Domri Rade: RG
Teyo Verada: Our new shield mate boi. Probably Wx.
Ral Zarek: UR, probably.
Tamiyo: GWU
Karn: Probably colorless.
Jaya: Mono-Red
Tibalt: Maybe BR or BRx?
New Girl: Who knows... Probably Bx
Kiora: GU
Sorin Markov: WB or WBx more likely.
Teferi: WUx, probably WUB.
Angrath: BR or BRx.
Dovin: More than likely WU.
Ajani Goldmane: Probably GW or GWx.
Arlinn Kord: RGx or RG
Ob Nixilis: Mono Black
Jiang Yanggu and Mowu: Mono-G
Huatli: RW or RWx
Sarkhan Vol: GUR
Saheeli: UR or URx
Narset: URW or WUx
Nahiri: RW
Ugin: Probably colorless?
Davriel Cane (Or Darth Vader): Probably Mono-black
Vraska: BG or BGx
Kaya: WB
Jace: Mono Blue. He's never been anything but.
Gideon: Probably Mono-White... but they might change that due to recent experiences.
Liliana: Mono-Black
Nissa: Could be mono-green, but might be our GU planeswalker.
Chandra: Definitely mono-red.
Vivien Reid: Probably mono-green.
March 8, 2019 4:43 p.m.
Better guess:
Samut:
Nicol Bolas:
Ashiok:
New girl with Whip:
Domri Rade:
Teyo Verada:
Ral Zarek:
Tamiyo:
Karn:
Jaya:
Tibalt:
New Girl with staff:
Kiora:
Sorin Markov:
Teferi:
Angrath:
Dovin:
Ajani Goldmane:
Arlinn Kord:
Ob Nixilis:
Jiang Yanggu and Mowu:
Huatli:
Sarkhan Vol:
Saheeli:
Narset:
Nahiri:
Ugin:
Davriel Cane (Or Darth Vader):
Vraska:
Kaya:
Jace:
Gideon:
Liliana:
Nissa:
Chandra:
Vivien Reid:
March 8, 2019 5:17 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #17
Are they really doing 36 walkers? Unless they start printing kill PW spells at common this will make limited utterly terrible. I might have to skip this set.
Mj3913 - Garruk has been long dead my friend and Nahiri was never "stoned". She stuck Sorin in a wall, but she herself is still running around the multiverse suuuuper pissed. As far as how Sorin got out, my guess is Olivia, Ugin, Sigarda, or even Anjani while he was pulling a Nick Fury and recruiting other walkers (I hope I am not the only one who noticed that parallel...their eyepatches even match!) might have helped out.
March 8, 2019 6:32 p.m.
PlatinumOne says... #18
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: its not about "how many" planeswalkers there are, its about how balanced they are. theres nothing inherently wrong with having lots of planeswalkers. 50 balanced planeswalkers is still better than 1 crazy broken planeswalker. and every pack will have a planeswalker, so limited will be fine.
March 8, 2019 6:50 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #19
Source for Garruks Death Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor? Will have to go back and do some reading... I thought she stoned both him and herself... my bad.
March 8, 2019 6:54 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #20
Mj3913 - Ya know what? I actually can't find a source about his death. I could've sworn Lili killed him off at some point, but it looks like he is actually just "out there" somewhere also suuuuper pissed haha. My apologies.
March 8, 2019 6:58 p.m.
Flooremoji says... #21
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: garruck was just cursed, still walking around. Also Nahri has no blood left in her body last time I checked, did she recover?
Also Wiki War Of The Spark has the PW Pane Gallery.
March 8, 2019 7:12 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #22
PlatinumOne - It's not about power, it's about how I'd prefer for my pre-releases and drafts not to last 10 hours. Walkers greatly slow the game down.
March 8, 2019 7:13 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #23
Flooremoji - Well we don't know how well she has recovered, but she definitely left Innistrad alive.
March 8, 2019 7:16 p.m.
PlatinumOne says... #24
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: walkers don't innately slow the game down just by being walkers. it depends what the walker does. some actually speed the game up. prereleases take a long time anyway just because everyones getting random stuff and nobody has a streamlined or consistent deck. theres also the chance that people won't even use the walkers they pull, or won't draw them, or just choose not to cast them. so the chances of planeswalkers making your prerelease take "10 hours" (it wont because the judge will call time) are pretty low.
March 8, 2019 8:22 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #25
PlatinumOne: Sorry, I am super busy right now so my ability to respond is pretty hit-and-miss, but I was speaking in hyperbole. Of course a normal 5 round pre-release won't last 10 hours, but you understand my point. You are taking an already slow format and injecting a bunch of non-interactive, grindy cards. And unless you are at a fairly competitive pre-release, you can absolutely bet most people will be splashing for their walkers.
I have to disagree with you on PW design. Think of it this way, a PW is essentially a life gain spell that in most cases has a way to protect itself tacked on. Whenever they are played resources (i.e. combat steps, removal spells, burn spells, counter magic, etc.) that would normally be used to bring about the end of the game are diverted as a battle over the PW occurs. Now throw 32 of these cards into the Limited format that for the most part lacks the most efficient way to deal with a PW because removal is so scarce. Furthermore, you have to expect a large number of these cards will show up at a lower rarity than mythic. That means the chance to see multiples within a single game/deck increases. You can definitely expect games to slow down.
I will agree with you that some of this discussion depends on the individual PW as they can break board stalls, but even then it might take a few turns to break the stall (I am thinking Ob Nixilis Reignited vs. something like Karn, Scion of Urza here).
I think the only way WoTC could pull off having so many PW cards without killing the Limited format is to print removal spells at the common or uncommon rarity.
With all that said, the play design team has been doing a good job in recent sets creating strong and balanced Limited environments, so maybe things will work out.
March 12, 2019 4:55 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor - I want to add one somewhat intuitive, but easy-to-overlook point to your list as to why Planeswalkers will slow down Prerelease: They tend to have lots of text on them.
Lots of players go into Prerelease blind for a number of reasons (they find it more fun to discover the cards at release; they don't want to put the effort into following spoiler season; etc.). Even those that do prep might not remember the rules text on every single card, particularly cards with lots of rules on them.
I expect there will be lots of "can I read that" when a planeswalker is cast and lots of follow-up "can I see what that card says" once it is on the battlefield (either in response to activating an ability or when it is going to ultimate on the next turn).
It's certainty going to be interesting to see how things work out. I anm generally anti-Planeswalker as a card type to begin with, but I trying to keep an open mind. The past couple sets have been fantastic, so I think Wizards has earned a bit of trust.
March 12, 2019 5:17 p.m.
PlatinumOne says... #27
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: not all planeswalkers slow the game down. again, some speed the game up. in a lot of cases, its still better to just attack the player directly, rather than their planeswalker. the WAR prerelease will guarantee everyone gets 6 walkers, but not all 6 of those will be used in a players deck. most likely only about 2 due to color restrictions, because its unwise to run 3 colors in a prerelease without getting some lucky pulls that allow for color fixing. as for planeswalker removal in common or uncommon, that would pretty much defeat the purpose of a "planeswalkers matter" set. i think its rather silly to design cards with the intent of ensuring draft and prereleases don't "get out of hand". if a fun limited environment can be achieved, then great, but that shouldn't be the ultimate goal. after all, a card will only see play in a limited environment once in its lifetime. unless of course a player cheats by going to multiple prereleases.
March 12, 2019 11:11 p.m.
I have to agree with that - planeswalkers are difficult to parse, especially for newer players, and the problem is exacerbated when multiples are played.
However, even with a planeswalker in every pack, the problem will be mitigated somewhat:
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I imagine there will be lower rarity walkers, which will be less complex (2 abilities only for example);
-
additionally, you can realistically play only 3 out of 6 walkers in your pack, since the other will not fit your colors. And you cannot expect to draw more than 2 of those in the average game.
-
and, most walkers are less complex than certain rares or mythics - i think that Captive Audience is more complex than say Domri Rade ;
-
finally, most walkers really have 2 abilities - a plus and a minus ability and an ultimate, which the opponent does not care what it does, just how much loyalty it takes to activate and stopping it.
March 13, 2019 5:20 a.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #29
cdkime and Boza: Those are very good points about the complexity of PW's.
Boza: I was actually thinking about a way they could make less impactful PW's at lower rarities and I have a hunch that they may only have 1 ability (2 at most) and can only tick down. Also, 3 PW's in a 40 card deck is actually a pretty high number when you think about it. In a normal game it is safe to expect to see at least 15 cards from your deck (including your opening hand). With 3 PW's in a deck that means your probability of seeing at least 1 PW in those 15 cards is ~70%. That is a bit alarming to me when you consider how game warping they are.
PlatinumOne: Again, I don't disagree with you that PW's can speed up the game when certain conditions are met. Dropping an Ob Nixilis Reignited to remove a crucial blocker and enable an alpha strike can certainly quicken things. However, I'd argue those cases occur less than the combined instances of playing a PW to attempt to stabilize or to just gain value (which do slow down the game). What is important to consider is how the game warps around them. The way they are designed forces a play sequence that slows down the game (see my comment above), which is my point.
Also, you must play in some very competitive prereleases. It's Magic's most casual format and everyone wants to play the cool new cards they opened. 3 color decks are pretty common from my experience as people often splash for 1-2 bombs. I still see 3 color decks even at my LGS's competitive event. Plus, you forget that this set occurs on Ravnica which has ample fixing at the common level.
Lastly, I am not sure where your arguments about how creating removal would "defeat the purpose of a planeswalker matters set" and about WoTC not caring about the Limited environment are coming from. a) You can have "x matters" sets and still create ways to interact with whatever "x" is. Just look at Kaladesh/Aether Revolt. Plenty of artifact removal there and the Limited format was still degenerate (for reasons beyond removal though). b) WoTC 100% considers Limited when they design new sets. They have not been shy about making that clear for some time now. Ensuring a balanced Limited format is part of why they created the play design team in the first place.
Either way, I think cdkime is right. The play design team has been doing a solid job lately so they should be given the-benefit-of-the-doubt. I am still apprehensive about this next set though.
March 13, 2019 11:19 a.m.
PlatinumOne says... #30
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: i didn't forget that ravnica had color fixing. i myself ran sultai at the Guilds of Ravnica prerelease because i got some lucky pulls with color fixing. and i never said wotc "didn't" design with limited in mind, so i'm not sure where you got that idea. i said they "shouldn't", for reasons i've already stated. if you often see people splash a 3rd color at prereleases, without having some sort of decent color fixing, then thats just not an intelligent choice those players are making. the odds of getting all 3 colors as soon as you need them are just too low.
March 13, 2019 12:20 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #31
I apologize if I misunderstood you. I think there is a fundamental difference between what we are arguing here. From here it seems that you are arguing "what should happen" while I am arguing for "what actually happens". So I am going to try to come at it from a "should" perspective.
"Should" WoTC design sets with Limited in mind? I emphatically say yes. From their standpoint it's one of their highest grossing formats. It behooves them to make sure that the format is fun and balanced so more people will play it. From a player's perspective, if it's not fun, I won't play. Now there is a whole other argument about creating Constructed only sets and how Limited ruined the Masters sets, but that is neither here nor there.
"Should" WoTC put 32 PW's into a single set: Yes and no. Yes from the perspective that a lot of people like PW's and think they are cool cards. As a result, people will want to buy and play with these cards. From a game play perspective it's a bad idea because of the many reasons that I have already listed above.
Again, "should" players splash for a third color with limited fixing. I would agree with you and say no. The correct choice is to stay within your colors, but again, that's not what actually happens. People like to play cool cards, especially when they are new. As a result, questionable deck building decisions have and will continue to be made.
Anyways, I feel that we will have to agree to disagree on this as we have sort of hijacked this thread, so I am going to leave it at that. This has been an interesting discussion though and I thank you for that. I might try a little experiment if I go to the WAR prerelease to see just how PW's impact the flow of the game.
March 13, 2019 1:23 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #32
It seems that Ob Nixilis and Tibalt will have cards in this set, but I really hope that they are not involved in the story, since I would like to see them be independent threats who have no connection to Bolas, a belief that is further supported by the presence of Elspeth and Sorin in this set, despite the fact that both of them are currently imprisoned (in Nyx and on Innistrad, respectively), and there is no reason to presume that they shall be freed from their imprisonment for this set (as each of those could have an entire set dedicated to them).
March 13, 2019 10:23 p.m.
I am almost absolutely convinced that Nicol Bolas will win. A person I know told me he had a theory where Nicol Bolas started this war knowing that all of the planeswalkers in existence will be gathering together to fight him if he could cause enough trouble and stall them long enough. He wants to gather all of them together and cast some sort of huge mass spell to steal all of the sparks of all other planeswalkers so he would be the only show in town. But I got another theory, this is going to happen BUT....
Garruk shows up out of nowhere and smashes the big object "lets just call it a crystal" that is the catalyst for bolas' spell that he can steal everyone's' sparks and it creates some sort of "planar spark nova" and sends a ripple wave down through all the planes in existence and awakens not just many, but many COUNTLESS sparks in others in every plane of existence. People who never felt a single tinge of magical power or dreamt magic was real suddenly sparking with magical power and the ability to traverse the blind eternities. Thus, bolas's ultimate goal is forever lost to him and he is now only one fish in an ocean of other fish, and no matter how big he gets, he will always be one fish in an ocean too big for him to ever control.
I think that is what is going to happen.
March 19, 2019 5:10 a.m.
Also, because of this, there will be as many planeswalkers in a set as there are things like artifacts or lands etc. Instead of being rare super cool characters, we will get tons more from many others in different sets going forward. The next set after this will involve a story and land of millions suddenly discovering they can travel to different planes and this plane will be themed off a plan that acts as a terminal for travel to all the other planes including kamigawa and new phyrexia.
March 20, 2019 2:55 a.m.
PlatinumOne says... #35
vasarto77: thats highly unlikely. only about 1 in a million beings have a planeswalker spark to begin with.
March 20, 2019 3:52 p.m.
@platinumOne - That is what would Make it so huge though! Just imagine it, everyone has a spark, but only those 1 in a million have any chance at awakening it, otherwise it is just dormant forever until this planar shockwave forces them to all wake up.
Imagine it like a extinct Volcano. If you dig down below it and light off a nuke, that extinct volcano is going to pop back to life from that kind of massive power erupting the ground below it.
Boza says... #2
I, for one, welcome our new draconic overlords. The cooler development would be for Bolas to win overwhelming and start ruling the multiverse. The rest of the planeswalkers become rebels/guerilla warforce against him and try to steal the plans for the death star to ruin his plans... wait, I got my IPs confused.
But still, Bolas winning is the highly unlikely scenario, but still the cooler one.
March 8, 2019 11:54 a.m.