What Do You Expect from a Norse Mythology-Themed Set/Block?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Nov. 26, 2019, 11:05 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
Now that this game has a plane modeled after ancient Egypt and a plane inspired by Greek mythology, I believe that it is only a matter of time until there is a plane inspired by Norse mythology; however, given that Throne of Eldraine was recently released, I doubt that there shall be such a plane in the near future. Arthurian legend is not identical to Norse mythology, but they are sufficiently similar that I believe that WotC would not wish for them to be in close proximity to each other.
Therefore, this thread is not to speculate about specific cards that may be in a set or block inspired by Norse mythology, but to express general desires and expectations for such a set/block.
First, I believe that such a set/block would be perfect for quests, sagas, heroic, and monstrous to return, since all of those elements are present in Norse mythology.
Second, there will definitely be gods, but they shall be different from the gods of Theros or Amonkhet; my prediction is that they shall be indestructible only under certain circumstances, since the gods of Norse mythology could be killed, albeit not easily.
Third, and this is most important, I expect that there shall be people modeled after the Vikings, and I fully expect them to be fearsome and awesome warriors, but I really hope that WotC does not succumb to the common stereotypes about the Vikings that are popular in fiction, today. In actuality, the Vikings were, indeed, fearsome warriors, but much of their reputation for violence and savagery is propaganda spread by their enemies; in reality, the Vikings went raiding and pillaging only on rare occasion; most of the time, they were peaceful farmers or brave explorers. They may not have been scholars or philosophers in the way that the Greeks and Romans were, but they were incredible storytellers and talented artisans, at least in the areas of woodworking and metallurgy, so I do hope that those aspects of their lives would be portrayed in this game.
What does everyone else say about this subject? What are your desires and expectations for a Norse mythology-themed set or block?
DemonDragonJ says... #3
TypicalTimmy, do not forget about krakens, which, despite appearing in the The Clash of the Titans, and, by extension, the Theros block, originated from Norse mythology; if there are no krakens in a block inspired by Norse mythology, I will be very displeased.
Also, I feel that Valkyries would be red/white angels in this game, since they were always stated to be fierce warriors.
November 27, 2019 6:48 a.m.
ScionsStillLive says... #4
Some card ideas:
First, a vehicle.
War Longship
Artifact - Vehicle
Trample
When War Longship attacks, it deals 3 damage to up two other targets.
Crew 4
The doing damage to other targets is supposed to represent the cannons, and the green cost is supposed to represent the purpose it was made for and what it is made out of.
Now, a creature.
Roht, God of Lightning
Legendary Creature - God
Roht, God of Lightning is indestructible when not in the combat phase.
When Roht, God of Lightning deals damage to a player or planeswalker, you may draw a card.
: Do 1 damage to any target.
4/4
Basically, I tried to make some version of Thor. I made this creature's name by writing "Thor" backwards.
A Planeswalker:
Vludo, Enraged Farmer
Legendary Planeswalker - Vludo
Whenever a token you control dies, Vludo does 3 damage to target creature.
+2: Make two 0/1 green Plant creature tokens with defender.
+1: Sacrifice a creature. You gain life equal to its toughness.
-10: You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature you control dies, you win the game."
3
Now, a spell.
Merfolk Invasion
Instant
Whenver a creature you control this turn dies, create a blue 2/3 merfolk creature with "When this creature attacks, tap target creature an opponent controls. That creature does not untap during it's controllers next untap step."
And finally, an enchantment.
The Treasure's Curse
Enchantment
Enchant creature an opponent controls.
Whenever enchanted creature attacks, each opponent creates a colorless Treasure token with "sacrifice this artifact, add 1 mana of any color to your mana pool."
Whenever enchanted creature dies, each opponent creates a legendary colorless token named The Hidden Treasure of the Treasure's Curse that says "Sacrifice this artifact, add to your mana pool."
November 27, 2019 10:24 a.m.
I would see there being two main factions. Your Vikings could essentially be a jund version of pirates with Raid treasure, warriors being and snow being their main mechanics. (I know it’s not the whole truth but when has wizards not used the Hollywood version of a culture.)
On the other side you could have monks and essentially middle Europeans in white blue but what twist if they were evil in the lore. They could have control, life gain and humans.
I don’t know about this but what if they did Norse in a return to ixalan as the Vikings were in a similar time as the conquistadors.
November 27, 2019 1:44 p.m.
M_Malcom - the Viking Age (c. late 700s to late 1000s) and the Age of Discovery (c. 1400s to 1600s) were several centuries apart. That would be like saying the Age of Discovery happened at a "similar time" to today.
November 27, 2019 2:13 p.m.
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Umm. Magic weapons - equipment galore. SENTIENT EQUIPMENT!!! (singing swords - or a certain sentient hammer... Mjolner) similar to licids in mechanics. Basically I want equipment, maybe even with a color alignment that converts into a creature if you pay (or vice-versa creature-to-equipment). CURSED EQUIPMENT/CURSED SENTIENT EQUIPMENT - A bloodthirsty sword or crown that you can attach to opponent's creatures &, again, behaves similar to a licid. I still demand a legendary creature that can turn into an equipment that I can have as commander :)
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Maybe transformy Gods - like how Loki progressed from red trickster to red/black murder god (though Xenagos sortof has this story already).
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Long ships, exploration theme again, better witches (shouldof had in Eldraine), curses, NOBLE creature type expanded, bears, useful landwalking/islandwalking creatures, & MUCH more expansion of the GIANT tribe - maybe a really cool Naya giant commander
November 29, 2019 8:45 a.m.
Oh also, this culture were masterminds of navigating, moving quick, & making life very difficult on CONTROL-obsessed stagnant empires. Hence the whole feudal system needing to be adopted... In the spirit of this, I think this set could use a bunch of parallel effects, haste (again), islandwalk, enchantment/artifact interaction, & "cannot be countered". Diversified Treasure Nabber -style abilities seem appropriate - the Vikings certainly used their spoils, but they didn't typically hang around and control or govern after the fact.
November 29, 2019 8:53 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #9
Gleeock, Loki would absolutely have blue in his color identity to contrast him with Thor, who is unquestionably red.
November 30, 2019 9:56 p.m.
I see it differently. Hard to say I guess there is that bit about destruction/storms in Thor's identity. However, Thor was also a champion of Mankind (Norse Hercules): law, order, building -- not very red (maybe ). Loki, on the other hand, was hands-down chaos, hung outside of civilization, fathered wolves, born of frost-giants. Feels more overall... Then he progressed from being a mere nuisance to murder/bringer of Ragnarok.
December 1, 2019 12:44 a.m.
Also, Loki rarely had a solid endgame, he often hatched ridiculous schemes just to put collective undies in a bunch, without a ton of forethought & would end up paying for it terribly, like having his innards feasted on by eagles & whatnot - this again is pretty of him. Although one could argue that this sounds kindof like Ertai, who was as as could be
December 1, 2019 12:48 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
Gleeock, you are correct; although I was already very familiar with Norse mythology before Marvel's Thor films were made, I shall admit that the general public's perception of the characters has been influenced by those films, since Loki in the MCU is very much blue (likely black/blue) and Thor, if he is not mono-red, may possibly be red/white.
December 1, 2019 10:37 p.m.
In both Eddas, Loki is depicted primarily as a problem-solver--someone the Æsir often blame for their problems, yet still turn to to solve them. He is clearly intelligent, as shown by his ability to both undermine the Æsir and solve their problems. He has a clever wit, able to hold his own with the other gods when flyting (a contest similar to the modern rap battle--two people exchange insults via rhyme). There is an intelligent method behind his machinations, and, as such, would be quite integral to his persona.
For two examples of his logical, Blue problem-solving:
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Loki is the one who sets up the contract with a jötunn to build the walls of Ásgarðr. When the gods decide they want to renege on their deal, it is Loki who comes up with the scheme to turn into a horse to distract the horse Svaðilfari.
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After Mjǫllnir is stolen by Þrymr, Loki support's Heimdallr's suggestion of dressing Þórr in women's clothing, and sending Þórr to be Þrymr's bride. Loki adds his own suggestions to the plan--disguising himself as Þórr's maid as he knows Þórr would ruin the plan if he spoke. Loki then proceeds to expertly deflect suspicion until Mjǫllnir is recovered.
Þórr, on the other hand, lacks any trace of . Among the Æsir, he is among the more simple, often solving problems through brute force and violence--a clear sign of .
To use the same two examples above to show Þórr's nature:
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After Loki successfully distracts Svaðilfari and causes the unnamed jötunn to fail to meet the deadline, the jötunn becomes angry. Þórr arrives and solves the problem by bashing the jötunn's head in.
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After Þórr regains his hammer, he promptly smashes Þrymr's head in.
December 1, 2019 11:40 p.m.
Sure, is associated with destruction. is also the color for agents of change & creativity - wits (use it or lose it type of intelligence) - whether the result is productive or destructive. Basically, Norse Promethius (a Titan associated with fire). Both colors associate with thievery, so that's a wash. . Intelligent pranks can certainly be red as well. Just like Loki, Thor morphed with the culture too, those Norse God-dichotomies are pretty interesting. The hammer itself representing both a tool of destruction & a tool for building. I think of later Gideon-like behaviors, but certainly there was plenty of irrational head smashing, especially early on.
December 2, 2019 8:49 a.m.
So, I think others give short-shrift & I give short-shrift... I'm still so very hazy on what completely represents after all this time :) .. Looking at just the spell-list for & its rogue's gallery certainly those spells are in-line with Loki, all the polymorphing, illusions.
December 2, 2019 8:53 a.m.
Red is the colour of impulse--there can be intelligence behind the impulse, but it's impulse none-the-less. The mythical Loki, on the other hand, is not really shown to be an impulsive figure. To the contrary, his machinations generally are well-thought-out, and often successfully lead to a long-plotted end.
In both the above examples, he has a very specific goal in mind, one he accomplishes not through impulsive creativity, but because he appraised the situation and made a determination as to the best course of action. The story of Þrymr's theft of Mjǫllnir is probably the best example of this--Loki is shown throughout the story as forward-thinking, taking the necessary steps (i.e. augmenting another's plan to mitigate it's weakness-Þórr's impulsive) then carrying out through wits, as opposed to impulse.
Or, for another example, the first major event leading to Ragnarök is the death of Baldr. To accomplish this end, Loki found out what Baldr's only weakness was, sought out and manipulated Höðr into killing Baldr, then manipulated events such that the gods had a chance to revive Baldr, ending their suffering... a chance foiled by the giantess Þökk (often thought to be Loki himself). Loki is then bound and burned by venom for an age as a result--a binding and patient imprisonment that also serves his eventual goals.
While the scheme results in chaotic twilight of the gods (albeit necessary chaos to rebirth a new world), the depiction of Loki throughout is not that of the impulsive jester; but rather the clever manipulator, capable of outmaneuvering the Æsir and Vanir.
Also, I want to be clear - I did not say Þórr was irrational. There is a certain rationality to his actions--he often defers to his intellectual betters until he sees the situation can be more quickly solved through violence. At his heart, Þórr is a god who likes to take action, preferring a direct approach
Looking at Blue, Blue is focused on Logic, Technology, Intellect, Omniscience, and Inaction. But the all caps words tend to be the least important on this chart. Rather, it is in the definitions of the two largest that you find the most salient information.
So, for Blue, Logic is defined as Intellectual Theory; Technology is defined as Intellectual Application. Taken together, one can derive the primary focus of Blue as: Intellectualism.
The same can be used for the other four colours: Whate would be Law; Green would be Nature; Red would be Action; Black would be Selfishness. Those keywords serve as a pretty good start for performing identity analysis.
December 2, 2019 9:23 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #17
Since Ragnarok is one of the most famous and significant events in Norse mythology, I would expect that a block inspired by Norse mythology would have a similar, world-shattering, event; does anyone else agree with that?
December 4, 2019 8:48 p.m.
I do not think we would get Ragnarök on our first foray into the new plane--they'd want to spend at least one set getting us used to the place so its destruction (and cyclical revival thereafter) feels more poignant. I'd expect we would see the Twilight of the Gods on the second set of that plane. Under the non-block model could be the very next set after the plane is introduced, or could occur years down the line.
December 4, 2019 9:55 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #19
Caerwyn, how do you believe that frost giants and fire giants would be portrayed in a setting inspired by Norse mythology? What about Surtur and Thrym, specifically?
December 12, 2019 9:10 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #20
This thread has been inactive, but I would like to revive it with a question: if WotC finally does have Norse-themed set, would you like it to be on Valla, Kaldheim, or an entirely new plane? I, myself, see no reason for it to be on a new plane, when there are two excellent planes to explore, but, between Valla and Kaldheim, I am not certain which I prefer.
Also, I would prefer that such a set or block be closer to the original Norse legends than to the depictions of those tales in modern popular culture, since more people are now familiar with the popular culture versions of the tales than they are with the original myths, so it would be nice to be reintroduced to the original tales.
On that subject, in the original tales, Loki was Odin's adopted brother, not Thor's; I am not entirely certain why Marvel changed that, nor why they changed Sif's hair from blonde to black, when her blonde hair was one of her most famous traits in the original mythology (an entire story about her focused on Loki cutting off her hair and then needing to replace it; apparently, she could not wait for it to regrow).
What does everyone else say about that?
March 7, 2020 10:42 p.m.
sliverjedi09 says... #21
um, marvel didn't change anything about loki's backstory or relation to odin. loki's has always been odin's adopted son.
March 7, 2020 10:47 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #22
sliverjedi09, that is not true; read any book about Norse mythology, and they shall say that Loki is Odin's adopted brother; Marvel created the idea of him being Thor's adopted brother.
March 7, 2020 10:55 p.m.
sliverjedi09 says... #23
it is true. i've read books about norse mythology already. i've never read a thor comic book and my knowledge of norse mythology long predates any marvel movies
March 7, 2020 10:57 p.m.
I saw it somewhere that Saskia the Unyielding and Licia, Sanguine Tribune
could be related. Apparently, according to the limited lore that was given to Licia was a conqueror, and she managed to conquer a village overseas. On the otherhand, Saskia is looking for vengeance to the army who attacked their homes.
Saskia has norse feel and Licia with Roman theme. If they are indeed connected, I believe WOTC will give us a European-theme plane. I cannot wait for that plane. Hopefully, they will add more gods.
April 20, 2020 11:35 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #26
Singed921, I never made that connection, before, so that is an excellent observation; any further lore about minor characters is always appreciated.
Caerwyn says... #2
Personally, I would like to see Advisors as a supported tribe. While it is true the Vikings respected physical prowess, skill at law was equally regarded. Njáll Þorgeirsson, Þorgeir Þorkelsson, and other legendary lawyers were given considerable renown in Nordic society and history. Hardly surprising for a group of people responsible for the oldest still-functioning democracy.
November 27, 2019 12:17 a.m.