What Should be Printed in Modern Masters 2?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 25, 2014, 4:08 p.m. by BoromirOfGondor
What cards do you think should be printed in the next Modern Masters expansion?
My picks:
And, of course, fetch lands.
So, what do you want to see in Modern Masters 2?
blackmarker90 says... #4
If Pod decks continue to have such unbridled success it will be getting the ban hammer before the next Modern PT
March 25, 2014 4:26 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #6
I think the earliest will be summer of 2016 for a MM2 type set
March 25, 2014 4:30 p.m.
Also, there is no way they will ban pod. They might ban a card that's fairly important to pod decks but isn't pod itself, but they would never ban Birthing Pod .
I don't really want another modern masters, in all honesty because, as a collector, I don't like prices to fall. Brutal honesty.
March 25, 2014 4:32 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #8
The chances of Snapcaster Mage being reprinted that soon are prettymuch zero to none.
I agree with ChiefBell. Pod itself will not get banned, neither will any part of the combo, they may try to take out a piece that makes it run smoothly (which is ironic because the deck mostly consists of mediocre cards), but they won't shut down the archetype itself.
March 25, 2014 4:36 p.m.
I agree with fluffybunnypants in agreeing with me previously.
March 25, 2014 4:40 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #10
I understand why you don't want a new Modern Masters set to be printed ChiefBell, but if wizards is going to they and push modern so hard something needs to be done about the price creep that is going on. The prices of the fetches and some other major staples needs to come down so that it is easier for new modern players to get in to the format. I know there is the argument of just trade into what you need and trade up to get the cards you need, but if prices continue to spike up what person is going to trade the cards that player X is looking for to finish their deck when the prospect of value loss is there because of steady price increase?
March 25, 2014 4:44 p.m.
They never said that they wanted prices to decrease they just said they wanted to 'support modern'. That could mean basically anything. What it doesn't necessarily mean is that they want to stop price creep.
I guarantee that prices will rise eventually (over time), regardless of any reprint, and in fact reprinting Goyf made his price increase immediately. It's all pointless. I just don't see what modern masters achieves apart from creating a temporary bubble.
That's kind of what eternal formats are like. Even reprints of Mutavault in M14 are massively expensive and that's in an actually widely produced set.
March 25, 2014 4:54 p.m.
TurboFagoot says... #13
Modern Masters is great because it's draftable, Chief. I don't care what their actual mission statement is, and indeed, I don't want prices to just drop for no reason. But man, if MM2 drafts as well as 1 I'm down.
March 25, 2014 5 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #14
Look at the use of Mutavault in standard today though, and you can see why it jumped to where it is now
March 25, 2014 5 p.m.
It didn't jump. The old Mutavault was already that price. That's the point.
March 25, 2014 5:02 p.m.
actiontech says... #16
Good God not another "modern is too expensive they need to print more cards so everyone can afford it" thread. This topic is T-I-R-E-D.
March 25, 2014 5:51 p.m.
Scapeshift and Mutavault won't happen. Old Modern Masters was Mirrodin Block through Alara Block, so MM2 will probably be Zendikar through Return to Ravnica.
March 25, 2014 5:58 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #18
Oh, good. actiontech is here to tell us all that he's against reprints in a growing format because he's played Magic for years and has all the cards.
1) Modern isn't Legacy. It's a growing format that Wizards wants to grow and be popular.
2) This can't happen without reprints.
TL;DR: If all you really care about are the card prices and not the health of the format, you belong in Legacy, a dying format whose decline is directly linked with this issue.
March 25, 2014 6:07 p.m.
Modern is the same as legacy. It'll die too eventually.
March 25, 2014 6:11 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #20
Modern isn't the same as Legacy. Legacy allows for cards that are MUCH rarer and harder to find than Modern cards. I don't think we even need to talk about the power level of Legacy cards vs. Modern cards.
The fact that Wizards continues to print cards that are perfectly viable in Modern is proof that they have no intentions of letting it die (at least not for the forseeable future).
Modern is not a format designed for collectors as Legacy is and shouldn't be seen as one just because it has had a low popularity rate in the past.
March 25, 2014 6:16 p.m.
Note my wording carefully:
"It'll die too eventually."
In the future.... maybe 5 years time.... maybe 10. Modern will reach a point where the decks stabilise and new cards make little impact. At this time modern will resemble legacy with old collectors (me and you) already possessing all the good cards and new players complaining about a lack of reprints. Price levels on the old cards will rise and rise and we'll just be in the same old cycle as vintage. Wizards may even add some of the cards to the reserve list. Who knows. It's a cycle, it will continue.
Modern is a format for collectors. Any eternal format is for collectors. Older players will naturally have a larger stock of viable cards than newer players.
And no, wizards aren't printing a great amount of new cards for modern. Fetchlands, shocklands, goyf, bob, birthing pod etc. These are all from old(er) sets. What's the last card to have made an impact? Liliana of the Veil ? Arguably Courser of Kruphix although it's far, far less important. The majority of decks do use old cards.........
March 25, 2014 6:28 p.m.
trentfaris242 says... #22
ChiefBell I see what you're saying. But don't you think Wizards could prevent this if they wanted by just printing new replacements? Not reprints, but new cards that make the old ones no longer staples?
March 25, 2014 6:34 p.m.
It's a potential way out. However it's not viable. They have this in yu-gi-oh. It only has one format that is basically the same as vintage, and in order to make any money at all they have to keep printing cards that are better than the last ones - the power creep is insane. Similarly in magic they'd have to print cards that were better and better and better, and it goes on...........
I think they COULD but it would be very dangerous to the meta. It's better to just let eternal formats be eternal and die out eventually. Your options are a) you reprint the cards and people are unhappy because they lose loads of money (well the old collectors do), or b) they print better versions which leads to power creep. Neither is that fantastic.
In my opinion we're going to see format cycles where eternal formats shift every 10 years or so. Similarly to how most players are priced out of vintage and wizards no longer support it, my argument is that eventually that'll happen to modern to. At that point I bet there'll be a new format to take its place.
Imagine if they had two eternal formats running at any one time. Every 10 years they introduce a new eternal format. You have vintage and then 10 years later modern comes out. Ten years after modern comes out a new 'eternal' format emerges and vintage cycles out. By this point it's been over 20 years since vintage became a format and most people don't have the money to play it anyway. The cards are still sought after because they were never reprinted - but not many people are playing with them anymore because they just can't afford them. The format dies and from its ashes wizards creates another. Quite an elegant system right?
March 25, 2014 6:46 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #24
As it stands right now Modern is a non-Rotational format as is has a starting set, but no current ending set. I could see Wizards making a new modern, in 3-5 years, with the release of the new card borders starting in M15. This new format would "phase out" legacy so it is like today's vintage and make current modern the new legacy type format. Until/unless this happens there needs to be some sort of market stabilization for current modern cards.
March 25, 2014 6:58 p.m.
actiontech says... #25
Vintage must be dead because of the P9 situation. There are very few copies of moxen in existence compared to the volume of players.
Legacy is not dead. Wizards just printed True-Name Nemesis specifically as a legacy addition and it's had a pretty major impact on the format. Fetches and duals were nearing price equilibrium for a while there before anyone with any sort of income figured it out and started buying the duals up. If demand for those duals drops (that is, enough people decide they don't want to play legacy because it's too expensive) then those duals will lose value, be sold, and you'll be able to get into the format if you so choose.
Modern is evolving as new sets are printed and cards impact it as well. This process will continue. Who knows if they may reverse-add additional sets to the modern format even? Not likely, but not impossible. Fetches will be reprinted, but probably not until 2016. You may see a few here and there in duel-decks or other Band-Aid add-on kind of releases but to see a cycle of fetches printed you're probably looking at the Onslaught ones and probably not for a couple of years. Those ZEN fetches are just going to be rare and pricy for a while. That is, unless you can convince thousands of people to protest modern events by not showing up, but that doesn't seem likely. A lot of folks still think the game is fun and will keep playing even if they don't have a T1 netdeck.
March 25, 2014 7:37 p.m.
They're not even that expensive. I grab them for about $60 each (the original dual lands).
March 25, 2014 7:40 p.m.
actiontech says... #27
ChiefBell I'd love to send you some cash to make a few purchases for me. Let me know if we can work that out.
March 25, 2014 8:27 p.m.
I may have misread, but isn't modern not an eternal format.
March 25, 2014 8:30 p.m.
actiontech says... #29
Modern most definitely IS an eternal format. Starts at 8th edition and will eternally contain all sets printed thereafter. For eternity. Eternally.
Standard is a rotating format. Sets drop off. This will not happen with modern. What cards you own for that format will be forever playable in that format. Which is why they cost more.
March 25, 2014 8:33 p.m.
I didn't read them, but they seem to support my statement. To my recollection, modern is noneternal because it doesn't allow every expansion into its pool (i.e. cards released in Commander or other special releases).
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Eternal_(format): MTGSalvation's Eternal wiki page
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/rumor-mill-archive/491880-modern-isnt-an-eternal-format: Somebody asking about it on MTGSalvation.
I just used Google so I don't know how accurate they are.
I wonder if Epochalyptik could settle this misunderstanding.
March 25, 2014 8:48 p.m.
Technically only legacy and vintage are the only eternal formats but you can describe modern as a semi-eternal format.
March 25, 2014 8:49 p.m.
actiontech says... #33
ChiefBell - which eBay are you looking at?!? I watch auctions all the time for duals and they routinely end $3-5 under TCG, as in nowhere near $60.
March 25, 2014 9:09 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #34
Modern is not an eternal format. Eternal formats pull from all Magic products ever printed, including multiplayer releases like Commander decks. Modern is a non-rotating format because it pulls from all core sets and blocks, but it is not an eternal format because it does not pull from other releases, and it does not include all sets.
March 25, 2014 9:21 p.m.
actiontech says... #35
Semantics. The modern legal cards will be eternally legal in modern, unless they are banned.
March 25, 2014 9:28 p.m.
Thanks, Epochalyptik. I was afraid I was misinformed.
March 25, 2014 9:50 p.m.
There is something the can do to prevent modern from over expanding like legacy has. It would require a rules change about what sets are legal, they could just make it a rotating format like standard but over a much larger span of sets. Changing it to something like, sets from the last 10 years (or maybe the last x number of sets that would be equivalent to that) are legal would probably work. So every year new cards rotate out and the format will be constantly changing but you will still have a large expansive pool of cards to build decks from so multiple archetypes can be successful.
March 25, 2014 9:54 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #38
In all serious give us Storm Crow as a common. Its better than getting Sylvan Bounty or Sandsower or something else that is meh.
I think other than the must reprint cards I would like to see these ones. Mostly decent cards of varying power. A few are ones that yeah reprint because I want it and several are just cards that would make for a good draft.
Amulet of Vigor and Root Maze for starts that would be fun.
Auriok Champion Banefire Nemesis of Reason Phantasmal Image Last Word Cavern of Souls Bloodghast Reflecting Pool Bloom Tender Braid of Fire Commandeer Consecrated Sphinx Daybreak Coronet Hurkyl's Recall Meddling Mage Mindbreak Trap Noble Hierarch Will-o'-the-Wisp Talara's Battalion Sundial of the Infinite Spellskite Prismatic Omen
Arc Trail Back to Nature Beast Within Cursecatcher Timely Reinforcements Smother Smallpox Inquisition of Kozilek
Aura Gnarlid Serum Visions Erase Blightning Gitaxian Probe Vines of Vastwood Nature's Claim Castigate Coiling Oracle Relic of Progenitus Terminate Searing Blaze Raid Bombardment
I am going to be a sad kid come Christmas with a list like that.
March 25, 2014 9:56 p.m.
blackmarker90 says... #39
This could be the reasoning for the new border as well as the counterfeit issue, Wizards is preparing to roll out a newer format starting from M15 to the next border change and the current modern will end with the M17 or M18 set
March 25, 2014 10 p.m.
I don't think modern should ever be a rotating format. The fact that it doesn't rotate is why I play it. I am in the military and going on deployment soon for 8 to 10 months and if I played standard by the time I get back my entire deck will have rotated out. If they did make modern a rotating format I would probably quit playing magic all together. I like building and using new decks but I don't ever want to be forced to due to rotation and be told that I cant play older cards that Ive invested tons of money into. Sure I guess if Modern did that I could go play legacy but I am not going to.
March 26, 2014 4:22 a.m.
Regarding ChiefBell's statement "Wizards may even add some of the cards to the reserve list. Who knows."
From the Wizards of the Coast, Official Reprint Policy web page link - " No cards will be added to the reserved list in the future. No cards from the Mercadian Masques set and later sets will be reserved."
That's not to say that they plan on reprinting any specific card, but it leaves it open, so that they can print what they feel is needed to better the formats.
I find it strange that you stated, "I don't really want another modern masters, in all honesty because, as a collector, I don't like prices to fall. Brutal honesty.".... then went on to defend the idea that reprinting cards often doesn't bring the prices down. ("I guarantee that prices will rise eventually (over time), regardless of any reprint, and in fact reprinting Goyf made his price increase immediately. It's all pointless.", and "Even reprints of Mutavault in M14 are massively expensive and that's in an actually widely produced set.")
I'm having a hard time figuring out if you think they should or should not print a MM2 set. - You seem to be a little "all over the place" in this discussion.
March 26, 2014 8:29 a.m.
ninjaking92 if the modern format stayed the same as a non-rotating format then as more time passes modern will essentially become legacy. Eventually there will be so many cards printed that the differences between whats available in legacy and whats available in modern will be microscopic in comparison to their similarities. That means there is going to have to be some sort of change made to the modern format or else it will literally die off from being too similar to legacy. If they made it a rotating format that included every set from the last 10 years then I don't think the fact that things rotate out is what your really concerned about, because It wouldn't be like standard where every year and a half or so you have an entirely new pool of cards to build a deck from. Instead cards will be available to the format for 10 years (in the example i gave), that would prevent the format from growing stale and becoming legacy and it would give you access to lots of different cards keeping it a diverse format where lots of decks can thrive. Investments are still worth it because cards would be legal to the format for a good length of time, but If modern never rotates then eventually staple cards will become severely overpriced because just like in legacy the number available in circulation will be very low. By definition, rare cards are already limited in numbers in comparison to other cards and as time passes their numbers become even more limited (from people holding onto them, getting lost, destroyed, etc..). So if there is no change then like i said it's just a matter of time before the two formats become too similar and modern staples become even less affordable turning off even more new players than it already does.
March 26, 2014 10:56 a.m.
Rayenous - my reasoning is a little confusing. I don't think printing another modern masters will be good for those that already can't afford the cards. As a collector, I'm against it because it has the potential to devalue my stock in the game. The two comments aren't completely contradictory because when a batch of cards are reprinted, certain prices fall whilst others continue to rise.
As someone who doesn't want MM to reprinted my goal is to provide convincing reasons why I think it shouldn't be reprinted. One of those reasons is that I feel it is unlikely to help players who can't afford the money cards anyway (looking at fetches etc). As a collector I have many cards, some expensive, and some not. If they were to reprint cards then some prices would fall and others would rise. The prices that would rise would be cards that are in high demand anyway - keeping the poorer players priced out, still. The prices that would fall would be the more niche cards that aren't in such high demand. However, as a collector I find it unacceptable that the price of any of my stock would fall. I would, preferably, like all prices to rise.
March 26, 2014 11:05 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #44
I like how everyone is thinking that more MMA sets will devalue cards. Considering the first was a limited release, there is no reason to believe the second won't be. Have Bob and Goyf dropped in price? No. That's because that only occurs when a staple is printed as part of a core set or expansion (i.e. Broseize (Thoughtseize )).
Rabblerabblesupplydemandrabble.
MMA was printed to raise interest in Modern as a format. Seems like it was pretty successful. I will note that in some cases the MMA version of a card is maybe a few bucks cheaper, but the staples maintained their value.
March 26, 2014 11:28 a.m.
Some of the swords decreased in price. Not by a lot but still.
March 26, 2014 11:32 a.m.
They won't reprint fetches because it's almost guaranteed that they will be reprinted in the next non-core, non-theros, block.
March 26, 2014 12:59 p.m.
BoromirOfGondor says... #47
Kiora_Fan-01, do you think they will be the ally or enemy fetch lands?
March 26, 2014 1:03 p.m.
"it's almost guaranteed that they will be reprinted in the next non-core, non-theros, block." is not true. It is highly speculated but certainly not almost guaranteed.
Just because a bunch of people think it will happen based on secondary market prices, does not mean wizards will do it. I hope they get reprinted in Huey as well, and I own most fetches, but we don't know if they actually will.
I have a lot invested in modern staples, but I would welcome reprints if it means my favorite format remains accessible for my friends.
March 26, 2014 1:20 p.m.
If they print them, they will print both enemy and ally.
Wizards has stated that the "Dual Lands" will no longer be partially printed within a block.
If any type of dual land is printed in a core set, all 10 will be in that set, and if any type of dual land is in a block, all 10 will be printed within that block (though they may be spread throughout the sets of that block).
March 26, 2014 1:21 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #50
What do I want printed in Modern Masters 2?
What do I not want printed? Liliana of the Veil
Unforgivn_II says... #3
Eldrazi. Or at least Kozilek
March 25, 2014 4:17 p.m.