why is this mythic
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Jan. 11, 2014, 10:14 p.m. by lord_of_the_snakes
why is nefarious burn mythic, it seems more like a rare to me
GoldGhost012 says... #3
It is a rare. Note the marking just looks shinier and more reddish. Compare it to a mythic, Kiora, the Crashing Wave :
As you can see, Nefarious Burn is a much more golden color than Kiora. It is a rare.
January 11, 2014 10:22 p.m.
lord_of_the_snakes says... #4
oh, hey, it is rare, the rare for red is just tinted for some reason. I feel dumb.
January 11, 2014 10:23 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #5
Check out the spoiler on MTG Salvation. In their picture the expansion symbol is clearly gold not orange. That picture actually looks like they took the art from a photo and put it in a generic MTG frame and filled out the details.
January 11, 2014 10:23 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #6
Actually yeah that is the same art from the one on MTGS. The green in the flames is from glare on a foil, I'm pretty sure its supposed to be white on the art.
January 11, 2014 10:28 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
Hell the artist credit even says"mock up" so where ever you are getting the spoilers from doesn't use actual photos and has a weirdly colored rare symbol on their red cards. Which actually brings up the point that I haven't seen a picture of one in English so the name may be wrong on either spoiler since MTGS has a different name for the same card.
January 11, 2014 10:38 p.m.
The real question is "Why is this a rare?"
Card's awful.
My friend described it to me over XBL last night and I asked if it was a Common. I just about shit a brick when he told me it's (a) rare and (b) the buy-a-box promo.
January 11, 2014 11:13 p.m.
Gidgetimer: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150552&stc=1&d=1389386473
January 11, 2014 11:14 p.m.
I can definitely say that if it was "target creature or player" it would suddenly become very good but not overpowered because only a mono-red build could run it reliably.
January 11, 2014 11:23 p.m.
It would be decent if it was "creature or player", but then it would just be a 4-mana, color-intensive Char that doesn't hurt you and only gives you Scry 2 if you blow it on your own turn.
January 11, 2014 11:30 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #12
I think it's a rare because Wizards doesn't want you to be able to remove a creature or Planeswalker and possibly generate card advantage for 4 mana in Limited.
January 12, 2014 12:08 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #13
I actually kinda like it. it kills Elspeth, which is otherwise difficult for red, and it also kills Polukranos, World Eater , and many other relevant creatures.i would playit at the least in a rdw sideboard
January 12, 2014 12:10 a.m.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #14
I think it deserves a rare slot. It's basically an answer for RDW to side in against Esper. Takes down Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Jace, Architect of Thought , Blood Baron of Vizkopa , and Obzedat, Ghost Council , which could leave them dead in the water for a few turns (NOTE: I said "could" not "would", so don't scream at me about not knowing anything about anything). It misses Desecration Demon (I've seen it as the bomb in a few Esper decks), but I think that's about it.
January 12, 2014 1:09 a.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #15
it's a rare because it let's mono-red and red-intensive decks to kill planeswalkers like Jace and Elspeth and Xenagos and a vast majority of dangerous creatures in standard like Blood Baron of Vizkopa . Obzedat, Ghost Council , and Polukranos, World Eater
sure it looks bad if you think of it like a traditional burn spell but it's really a red Hero's Downfall in that it's a card to deal with threats. If you want to burn out players there's already enough burn and cheap red dudes to turn a player into a smoldering crater.
January 12, 2014 1:44 a.m.
CrazyLittleGuy says... #16
Note: you can't remove creatures with this, so @BlastercoolWeird and @ItchiUchiha117, it won't hit any Obzedats or Blood Barons unfortunately. That's why I'm surprised it's hit rare, considering it's player/walker only burn. Maybe another high loyalty planeswalker will be released in BNG that could pose a huge threat to RDW, which would warrant this card's printing. All speculation though.
January 12, 2014 2:25 a.m.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #17
Dude, read it again. It's Creature or Planeswalker.
January 12, 2014 3:10 a.m.
beakedbard says... #18
Wait this is the buy a box promo? I don't like that at all. I still would of preferred this card if it was "target creature of player" due to being able to redirect to planeswalkers anyway. I really don't like the fact that this can't hit players. Also i agree it shouldn't be a rare especially considering Brimstone Volley was a common not so long ago and I'd much rather run that.
January 12, 2014 6:06 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #19
@zandl: I don't understand why you linked that to me. I said I hadn't seen a picture in English and that is definitely the one I was talking about in my first post that is in Spanish.
January 12, 2014 6:54 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #20
it kills every pw in standard the turn it comes in. it answers nearly every creature played in standard (obviously not Desecration Demon ) but most threats can be killed by it. I think itll make rdw so much better. the scry 2 if you play it on your turn is just a bonus. if you guys who don't like it don't want any you get, you can always give em to me. ill gladly take them!
January 12, 2014 10:35 a.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #21
The scry 2 on that card will give RDW what they need the most, tempo
January 12, 2014 12:39 p.m.
You know what also kills every Planeswalker or creature the turn it comes in? Hero's Downfall . You know what also costs less mana? Hero's Downfall .
RDW likely won't play this. They don't want to pay 4 mana to take out a PW (which they don't even care about). They want to pay 4 mana to kill the opponent, as with Fanatic of Mogis .
Gidgetimer: My apologies. I misunderstood your post.
January 12, 2014 1:01 p.m.
So my question is: how many pure red burn spells can directly target a planeswalker? This is the first one I've seen in standard and there is a big gap in my knowledge of cards pre innistrad and post Urza's saga, but I'm guessing that it's difficult to find? The advantage to this card is the it gives red a way to kill a planeswalker when an opponent has hexproof (e.g. Witchbane Orb ). The only other way I see is blanket damage via things like Earthquake . I think thats important if someone is playing a pillowfort type deck. Anyway, that's what I can see as the real advantage of this card. For standard? It might be a decent sideboard card for mono-red or nearly mono-red devotion type decks.
January 12, 2014 1:38 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #24
I think it is better then initially regarded. 4cmc to deal 5 damage to a creature or walker at instant speed? good bye ghost council. if you can catch him good bye aetherling, With a Chandra out during your turn its goodbye Desecration Demon.. Plus it scrys 2. I like it and would even find uses for it. Should it be a rare? Na! Uncommon but not a rare.
January 12, 2014 6:20 p.m.
Gidgetimer: My apologies. I misunderstood your post.
RDW doesn't necessarily want nor need to kill PWs. On turn-4, they want to killing YOU, not your PW. Things like Purphuros and Fanatic of Mogis are being cast on turn-4, not this bad burn spell. The Scry is very tempting, but you'd have to play it on your turn, meaning if you WERE saving it for a PW, you'd have to use your mana on your own turn to kill it when a simple EoT would've been sufficient.
Aside from that, there's already a better Scry burn-spell. It's called Magma Jet and it can hit players and always Scry 2 for you.
RDW won't be playing this card and I'm not sure why everyone seems to be liking it so much. Maybe if it could finish off a player, it would be playable. But it can't.
January 12, 2014 6:25 p.m.
Also, not sure why I tagged you twice, Gidgetimer. Brain fart.
January 12, 2014 6:26 p.m.
BlastercoolWeird says... #27
Yes Hero's Downfall is the better removal card. That's not really saying much considering Hero's Downfall is arguably better than every other removal spell in standard and is currently going for 10$ apiece. However it's kind of hard to use Hero's Downfall if you're playing a deck that doesn't use swamps.
Also, this wouldn't be a card you slam turn four; it's a card you keep in your hand past turn four in case your opponent gets down a Xenagos, The Reveler or Polukranos, World Eater , or if they stabilize and get to drop an Elspeth, Sun's Champion or something similarly powerful.
I don't know, maybe there's some kind of cool red Midrange deck with cards like Ember Swallower
that's just on the horizon.
January 12, 2014 6:59 p.m.
It's not a RDW card is what I'm saying. If you do keep it in your hand instead of windmill-slamming it down the moment you can, then it's not a RDW card.
I could see it in Big Red, maybe, but then the rest of the deck still has to be spoiled, too.
January 12, 2014 7:02 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #29
this spell could definitely be useful. sure, there are better cards out there, but not for red. it is maybe not as great against control, but it gives red decks the ability to push more creature damage through by removing the important fatties. at the very least, it will see sideboard play.
January 12, 2014 7:36 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #30
The reason why it is rare is simple, it can target a Walker, period, end of story. The same discussion popped up when Magmaquake was spoiled.
January 12, 2014 7:46 p.m.
All the red on the card does make the set symbol seem mythic at first glance.
January 12, 2014 7:49 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #32
To start RDW is not red aggro, red aggro is RDW though. Big Red is RDW, red devotion is RDW, RDW means simply Red Deck Wins. Just because some jerk off named his 1 drop red aggro "RDW" for a tourney recently doesn't mean anything. Pet peeve of mine, sorry for the rant...
On the card: it is a solid Sideboard card. Like someone else said against control it can be very helpful. Jace, Architect of Thought
can and does hose many red decks, this card gives a legitimate way to kill him. From my experiences playing red in this standard it would be worth siding in a card that can't damage the player against control as after one of their pw hits the board it is almost impossible to win. No deck wins reliably on turn 4 and assuming christmas land draws is pointless. This card fits reds curve and fills it need to interact with opposing bombs in order to finish games.
Almost all playable cards are rare whether the deserve to be or not, it's how wizards makes it's money.
January 12, 2014 8:33 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #33
RDW is not just any old red deck. It refers to a specific deck and others that operate similarly to it. I'm not sure how open you are to MTG Salvation as an authoritative reference, but just in case you do take it s a valid source: http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Red_Deck_Wins
January 12, 2014 11:48 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #34
@Gidgetimer Looks like a regular red deck to me. Aggressive creatures and burn... Red Deck Wins. The deck they use as an example curves out at 5 mana.
January 13, 2014 11:56 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #35
The difference is this,
RDW uses cheap creatures and burn to win the game as fast as possible.
Big Red uses powerful burn to control the table until they can drop a big beater.
Big red may be mono red, but it is NOT RDW. Big red curves out at 6-7 while most RDW curves out at 4 with some 5 drop exceptions.
January 13, 2014 12:25 p.m.
Red Deck Wins = Red Aggro
Just look at the list Gidgetimer linked to! Stromkirk Noble , Ash Zealot , and Hellrider ? It's hard to get more aggressive than that. Just read the page and stand corrected.
If you didn't know what RDW is, you don't know enough to argue otherwise.
January 13, 2014 1:02 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #37
the argument for the card in a RDW deck is still important, no matter your personal definitions of RDW. an opposing Jace, AoT is a death sentence for red, as they lack reliable ways to kill him. their creature power is often cut in half, and unless they have a bunch of burn, they lose. the new burn is a one shot kill, freeing up your creatures to attack the player before they stabilize. that being said, I believe the card will see plenty of play. it will be in most, if not all, red deck sideboards.
January 13, 2014 1:15 p.m.
lol There are no "personal definitions". There's just your definition and the right one.
Jace AoT can kill Jace by attacking him or burning him. Or they might not even have to. "All my creatures get -1/-0? Cool. I still have a bunch of 1/2 and 2/3 creatures, so let me just attack you and still hit for 5-8 damage. Burn spell for the game?" That's good enough for me.
I'm just curious: When was the last time you played Standard? Jace AoT has never been a "death sentence" for RDW.
January 13, 2014 1:29 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #39
I play standard regularly, and I use a u/w deck. up against RDW type of decks, Jace AoT locks up the game for me. when was the last time you played magic? a 1/2 would deal no damage, and a 2/3 would deal 1 damage after jace triggers. I don't know why you are coming after me about rdw definitions, im not claiming it is one or the other. im saying despite the differences, the new burn is useful. and iif you are spending time killing jace, that means you are not killing your opponent. have a one shot burn that will allow you to focus your creatures on your opponent will definitely be played.
January 13, 2014 1:58 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #40
Just for clarity, zandl was saying that he would have a bunch of 1/2's and 2/3's after Jace AoT uses his +1
January 13, 2014 2:04 p.m.
You have 1/2 and 2/3 creatures after you attack, silly.
If Jace is singlehandedly winning you the game against RDW, then you're playing against awful players.
No RDW player will even "spend time" killing Jace if they already have the upper hand, especially not by siding in an expensive, bad burn spell that can't even hit your opponent's face.
This card won't see play. I promise you. 4 mana is too much to deal with something that RDW already doesn't care about.
January 13, 2014 2:05 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #42
well we can just agree to disagree. i apologize for misunderstanding your statement. i still believe it will see play, it might not be used against control as i was suggesting, but big creatures can be a problem for RDW, and it can remove those threats. but we will see.
January 13, 2014 2:11 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #43
I can see how some would not consider big red RDW but that's all schematics. Red as a color has limited design space, most of it is dealing damage. Almost all playable red cards are aggressive creatures or burn because they don't print good land destruction any more. Pretty much every mono-red deck fits this archetype. They might run different cards and have different curves but they all win by dealing lethal damage before the opponent stabilizes. All of the other colors have much more to them and allow a greater variance in style/strategy and can feel different block to block. Red Deck Wins is a super-archetype, akin to control or aggro, that to me that encompass almost all mono-red decks because they all are the same at their core. Red has been my color for 14 years and I will keep shouting all this from my soap box whether the majority agrees with me or not.
GKirt is correct. This card is sorely needed by red in standard right now. It will be in almost all mono-red sideboards. zandl looking at your page it appears you haven't been playing standard during Theros and red appears to be your least played color, correct me if I'm wrong. When I was initially told of this card I thought is sucked. Then after thinking about how many games I've lost by not being able to push past Jace, Architect of Thought or Elspeth, Sun's Champion and how 4 is the perfect spot in the curve for this effect. Kill Jace t4 and scry 2 to hopefully to find the 5th land or push lands or small creatures to the bottom . T5 drop Stormbreath Dragon and finish. This card is a welcome addition.
God this weekend at an IQ I resolved 2 Assemble the Legion on consecutive turns against Esper, he dropped Jace in between them. I had 60 tokens and no way to get past Jace. This card would have won me the match.
January 13, 2014 2:26 p.m.
Jace is good against certain cards, but he's not going to come down on turn-4 against a full-speed-ahead aggro board-state and save you the game.
I was playing Standard every week (some weeks in 3 tournaments a week) up until a couple weeks ago, both with Jace AoT and with Red Devotion. Let's not pretend I have no idea what I'm talking about.
If your opponent is casting Elspeth, Sun's Champion , you weren't going to win the game anyways because you let your opponent slow you down so much.
January 13, 2014 2:30 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #45
that's the thing, zandl. Elspeth, Sun's Champion does not have to mean that you lose. this gives red decks an out against that kind of strategy. maybe you only need another turn or 2, and the new burn can get you that
January 13, 2014 2:35 p.m.
Just by siding this card in, you're slowing down your deck to deal with your opponent's slow threats. Make sense?
Maybe try siding in more burn to kill your opponent faster. Things like Skullcrack and lasting abilities like Burning Earth (against Esper and other obvious decks) give you more reach without slowing you down. That, an Burning Earth is a win-condition against 3-color decks.
January 13, 2014 2:37 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #47
i agree with what you are saying, but i still stand by my opinion. PW donthave to end the game for you if you have a slower start than usual. this card gives red decks a better chance. i understand that you don't like it, but after pro tour BNG, we will see if you change your mind. i suppose same goes for me, but i personally will play nefarious burn in my sb
January 13, 2014 2:45 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #48
Sometimes slowing down is the right thing for Red in standard right now. Supreme Verdict is really hard to play around for red devotion. Chandra, Pyromaster (0 to find more threats) and Stormbreath Dragon (pro-white & haste) are the best bet mono-red has against Esper/Azorius control. Sphinx's Revelation also usually extends the game a turn or two making red deal 23-27 damage. Jace, Architect of Thought +1 triggering on 2 attacks of 3 creatures negates 6 damage! This is huge. J AoT is a real threat to red decks. This card has it's uses. Evaluating it in a vacuum is pointless, it fits nicely into the meta.
cr14mson says... #2
it does look Rare to me. where does it say it's MR?
January 11, 2014 10:19 p.m.