Will we see other two drop Planeswalkers?
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on March 19, 2014, 11:04 p.m. by mymanpotsandpans
From are past experiences with finding out how two drop Planeswalkers run (Limited to the one and only Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded ), do you think Wizards will attempt a second two drop Planeswalker? Also how do you think formats would handle more two drop Planeswalkers? I can confidently say Tibalt has been labeled as one of the bottom contenders in the best Planeswalker race and has the lowest community rating on gatherer of a modest 3.033.
I believe Tibalt's main weakness comes from Wizards attempt at trying to balance a powerful card type at a lower than usual converted mana cost. Regardless of how useful his abilities are perceived, it is reasonable to say Tibalt is balanced for his casting cost. We have seen Planeswalker of varying casting costs from two to eight mostly prove to be a valuable piece in building may decks and almost staples in some deck archetypes. But it makes me wonder if Wizards second attempt at a two drop will pack a lot more punch than the first. On the other hand maybe this was a sign to wizards balancing a card type like this at such a low converted mana cost is not worth developing for future sets.
Another general trend I have seen in Planeswalker designs on subtype is to first change the colors needed in casting Ajani Goldmane and Ajani Vengeant for example. Then there is to simply bump or drop the converted mana cost Ajani, Caller of the Pride compared to the previous two Ajanis. So are we due to see more lower costed or higher costed Planeswalkers than usual as more and more are developed?
It's possible, but I'm going to lean towards not probable. A good 2 mana planeswalker could very easily be format warping good. I wouldn't be surprised if Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded was likely left intentionally low powered. A 3 mana Liliana became a multi-format powerhouse.
However, as mentioned I think double color cost would be a good start. Dying to Lightning Bolt even when +ed would also be a good start.
March 19, 2014 11:53 p.m.
I do not think so, but what I would really like to see is more tri-colored walkers even if they aren't as powerful as Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker .
To go along with your post though it would be an interesting experiment to see a 3 drop walker that's three colors. Even though its highly doubtful to be seen, I want JIN to have a Naya Ajani like that.
March 20, 2014 12:17 a.m.
The Doctor says... #5
They usually decide what the abilities are first, then assign loyalty and CMC. Then they continuously tweak between the two.
March 20, 2014 12:27 a.m.
megawurmple says... #7
I honestly can't see a 2-drop planeswalker in the future. It's either going to be broken and warp the format, or balanced and really unpopular. Just look at Tibalt. Even though Tibalt is a fairly bad planeswalker, he's about as powerful as you can feasibly get for a 2-mana planeswalker. Everyone hated him.
March 20, 2014 12:39 p.m.
MisterRoach says... #8
Broken 2 drop Walker will be a future Jace. Underwhelming 2 drop Walker will probably be another version of tibalt. Best would be to give us a goblin Walker. I wouldn't even care if it's dumb. I'd want it in foil.
March 21, 2014 4:41 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #9
MaRo has said that he believes there is room for a planeswalker 2 drop with higher power than Tibalt. So there is hope! But it's something they have to be VERY careful with.
March 21, 2014 4:47 a.m.
They might eventually do it but if they do its not gonna happen anytime soon.
March 21, 2014 1:18 p.m.
I would love it if they did a 2 cmc planeswalker and disregarded power level. I don't care if it got banned in every format, I just want to see Wizards push they're boundaries once in a while.
March 22, 2014 4:58 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #12
Come on, guys. Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded is clearly the best walker ever printed.
March 23, 2014 1:32 p.m.
megawurmple says... #13
CommanderOfBolas Are your Liliana of the Veil s still available? I'm still up for the trade if you are.
March 23, 2014 2:56 p.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #14
It would be nice to have a new planeswalker, that wouldn't be as game breaking... like a 2-drop with 2 LC, whose ultimate would allow you to search for another planeswalker and put it in your hand or on top of your library...
somewhere like this:
insert omniscient name here with comas, because comas are badass (B)(U)
(2 Loyalty counters)
+1: Target player reveals a card at random from his or her hand
-2: Target player puts the top 2 cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard
-6: Search in your library for a Planeswalker card and put it in your hand(put it on top of your library).
Or even it's ultimate would be something like:
-4: Search in your library for a Planeswalker card and put it in your hand. You lose life equal to its converted mana cost.
Any thoughts?
March 23, 2014 4:59 p.m.
That ultimate would be easy to abuse in EDH. Then again, planeswalkers aren't as fun in EDH.
March 23, 2014 5:55 p.m.
megawurmple says... #16
TheAmazingSalsa Those abilities have very little cohesion with each other. Prediction, mill and tutoring? They don't really fit together.
March 23, 2014 6:11 p.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #17
TitansFTW It was an example... Just representing (loosely) black and blue... but focus more on the ultimate.
March 23, 2014 8:03 p.m.
derKochXXL says... #18
Couldn't they just do something as with Sarkhan the Mad : Not giving + abbilities limits the Walker a lot, but maybe lets it be still playable in some decks.
March 24, 2014 7:31 p.m.
megawurmple says... #19
derKochXXL That's actually a very interesting idea. There is an inherent problem with that, however: you'd either have to have a 2 mana planeswalker with 4 or 5 starting loyalty, which is too high for the mana cost, or a completely useless planeswalker with 2 or 3 starting loyalty.
March 24, 2014 7:56 p.m.
derKochXXL says... #20
TitansFTW you're probably right about that. What if a - abbility added loyalty conditionally? Wow this is getting highly theoretical but I believe ther is a way to break this.
March 24, 2014 8:11 p.m.
sertsew123 says... #21
What about a planeswalker with x in the mana cost and maybe starting loyalty equal to x or abilities that do x of something like a positive ability that deals half of x to target creature or a minus ability that draws you half of x cards. Thoughts
March 24, 2014 9:16 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #22
sertsew123 I think that a good planeswalker could be made following that set of abillities that you cames up with. It made me think about a planeswalker that was ment for a support role of some sorts for other planeswalkers.
TheAmazingSalsa I drafted up a card with a similar ultimate. Even though his abilities can be useful he needs another planeswalker in play to be able to do something.
Mr. Zappy the (my name is subject to change) (casting cost is 2, colors are undecided)
(2 loyalty counters)
+0: Put 2 loyalty counters on another planeswalker, if that planeswalker was controlled by an opponent Mr.Zappy receives 5 loyalty counters
-2: Prevent all damage that you be delt to planeswalker you control this turn and planeswalkers you control gain hexproof until the end of the turn. This ability can be used at anytime and ONLY if Mr.Zappy has exactly 2 loyalty counters on him.
-7: Name a planeswalker type card. Search you library for one card with the chosen name and put it into your hand. Then shuffel your library. Until the end of the turn that card costs 2 less to cast.
March 24, 2014 11:45 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans, that -2 and -7 is very confusing. I can understand it (I think), but it would not hit the mark on a lot of players.
March 25, 2014 4:33 a.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #24
codebread yeah the -2 is over the top and needs to be slimed down.
March 25, 2014 7:10 a.m.
I really like the first ability, though.
I think something along the lines of...
Garruk Nalaar, Caller of the Dark Realms Sculptor
0: Put a loyalty counter on a Planeswalker an opponent controls, then put 2 loyalty counters on ".
-3: Until your next turn, prevent all damage that would be dealt to target Planeswalker you control. Use this ability only if an opponent controls a Planeswalker with less loyalty counters than ".
-7: Name a card. Search your library for a card of the chosen name and reveal it. If that card is a Planeswalker card, put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
2
It doesn't make much sense, but I'm just trying to toy with the first ability. I really like it.
March 25, 2014 8:23 p.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #26
Ok... but why have this 0 that interacts with another planeswalker? I mean, it's a nice idea and all, but we're talking about a 2-drop... unless you're playing against a Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded , it'll just sit in your hand/battlefield doing nothing until your opponent drops their planeswalker...
And, about adding counters to your opponent's planeswalker just to get 2 loyalty counters is stupid... It should be "Put X Loyalty counters on target planeswalker you don't control and X loyalty counters on INSERT OMNISCIENT NAME HERE", because then you'll be able to get your -7 on the next turn....
But still thinking it's a bad idea because we want an early game Planeswalker, not some crap that will HELP the opponent as well as NEED the opponent to have a planeswalker...
March 25, 2014 8:49 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #27
codebread I like the direction that your card has, it is a lot less confusing than my card you narrowed it down well. The Idea I had was that Tibalt was cheap but didn't do anything really that well in most cases. The Idea of my zappy is he is a cheap investment with some good power but is niche in practice, needing other planeswalkers. The +0 can be used for yourself at worst if he gets fried you payed 2 to put 2 loyalty counters on a planeswalker you control every turn till he dies. Then you could use the +0 on an opponents planeswalker to jump him to 7 loyalty for his ultimate possibly the turn he comes into play. The -2 was so over thought because I wanted it to be powerful but restrictive. He enters with 2 loyalty and it takes 2 loyalty counters to use it exactly.
Meh I don't work for Wizards or probably never will, I will let card design up to them or will I? No clue dude. I would Play Garruk Nalaar, Caller of the Dark Realms Sculptor
March 25, 2014 8:55 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #28
TheAmazingSalsa Jump back to the Mr. Zappy design and see if the +0 is better or worse. Also good point and that is something that would need to be balanced. Having a 2 drop planeswalkers to be competitive, "competitive" or "pro" players would want their cards doing stuff the moment it hit the field. You bring up a decent point. Maybe he can be can be an anti planeswalker type one. Steal Loyalty and maybe use its own abilities for your own. (That would be confusing) Maybe have a Vampire Hexmage type ultimate and steal the loyalty back?
March 25, 2014 9:04 p.m.
I wanted to give CARDNAME a terrible first ability to balance out its -3 and -7 (the -7 isn't even very strong, though). Like I said, I'm just trying to fiddle with it. You bring up a good point about it being useless as a two drop if its dependent on other Planeswalkers. I just figured to make a two drop planeswalker balanced it had to have an extreme drawback that didn't benefit its other abilities.
Your "+X: Give X loyalty counters to..." is also kind of stupid, given that you could plus it by a terrible number and fog the rest of your planeswalkers for the rest of the game with its -3. Unless I'm not understanding it correctly.
March 25, 2014 9:57 p.m.
mymanpotsandpans says... #30
codebread is you comment directed to me? I am confused.
March 25, 2014 10:03 p.m.
Oh, no, sorry mymanpotsandpans. I should have used userlinks. It was directed at TheAmazingSalsa. Sorry again.
March 25, 2014 10:06 p.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #33
@codebread: I liked the idea of an anti-planeswalker planeswalker. And being a 2-drop it won't take much of your turn when your opponent drops his or hers planeswalker... I had some ideas of my own, and it'd be something like this:
Omniscient Name, with comas (B)(W) (it should be a vampire, like a version of Sorin)
0: Remove 2 loyalty counters from target planeswalker you don't control. Put 2 loyalty counters on Omniscient Name, with comas.
-X: Remove X loyalty counters from target planeswalker you don't control. Or add X loyalty counters to target planeswalker you control other than Omniscient Name, with comas.
-5: Search your library for a Planeswalker card and put it in your hand. You lose life equal to it's converted mana cost.
(2)
I'd love to play with one of those, mainly because I kind of don't like all the current planeswalkers, and they don't interact with one another....You always read all the lore and how Jace and Ajani and Elspeth pretty much fucked up the ENTIRE universe of Zendikar because HURR DURR Eldrazi, but they NEVER interact ingame....
That really pisses me off, sorry
March 26, 2014 12:56 a.m.
I don't understand why you're apologizing. How you feel is how you feel.
I do sympathize with you, though. The only real interaction Planeswalkers have without being attacked is being hit by hate-cards like Dreadbore or Despise .
kanofudo says... #2
I think it truly depends on what they want the walkers to do. they may even try to sketch out base abilities before even assigning cost and initial loyalty as it might be much easier to decide what it does before focusing on balance
March 19, 2014 11:28 p.m.