Zendikar Spoilers!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Sept. 1, 2020, 1:48 p.m. by Daveslab2022
Spoiler Season is among us once again my friends.
I figured while we wait for more cards we could discuss them as they are being spoiled.
My favorite so far is the new Nissa. She seems pretty exciting.
What are your favorite cards so far? What do you think about the dual sided cards that allow you to choose which side you play?
Coward_Token says... #3
The promised mana battery is here, Lathliss rejoice
Nothing spectacular but one combo I noticed with Obuun is Fertilid (or Realm Seekers), especially with Amulet of Vigor involved
September 5, 2020 1:52 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #4
I am wondering if these spell/land cards are worth it for my Mina and Denn, Wildborn deck. My thinking is that I can play them as lands early on and then when I want the spell side later on, I can just bounce them back to hand with Mina and Denn. In particular I am thinking about Valakut Awakening and Turntimber Symbiosis as earl lands/late game card advantage
September 6, 2020 6:23 p.m.
@Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: Yup, that works. The cards are spells in all zones until you play them as a land. When they get bounced back to your hand, they revert to being spells.
September 6, 2020 7:43 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
Some of the new lands in this set enter the battlefield tapped unless their controller pays 3 life and produce only a single color of mana; essentially, they are worse versions of the shocklands, since they require a higher payment and produce less mana, so why would any player ever use them?
September 7, 2020 7:57 a.m.
DemonDragonJ because they have a spell on the other side you can choose to cast instead of the land
September 7, 2020 8:04 a.m.
Prodigalpyro says... #8
I'm not convinced that the spell side makes many of them worth playing. The argument I hear the most is to cut a land but that's not where a lot of decks really want to be as far as a mana base goes. I'm definitely willing to be proved wrong however but the cost of putting them into a deck is still pretty high imo.
September 7, 2020 8:14 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #9
Journey to oblivion is the newest variant of Oblivion Ring and/or Journey to Nowhere- (and there have been many such variants), but I feel that its cost-reducing ability is too unreliable; when WotC eventually has a survey for this set, I shall state that I feel that the party mechanic is too narrow and unreliable.
Nahiri's lithoforming is a very nice card, but the fact that it requires both a payment of and sacrificing of lands makes it too expensive, in my mind; it should have require either one or the other of those payments, in my opinion.
For 3 mana, molten blast should have been to target players with its first mode.
It is nice to see a new version of Akiri, especially since she was introduced in a Commander product, and WotC previously has been usually keeping such characters only in such products.
Forsaken monument will be awesome in colorless and/or artifact decks, so I shall remember it, i I ever build such a deck.
smackjack, DeinoStinkus, that makes sense.
September 7, 2020 11:31 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #10
Lithoform Engine has some wild templating
Fearless!Akiri is probably not the EDH boros draw engine people have been waiting for, but hey a ceiling of three cards a turn isn't bad even if it requires a total of six permanents. Living weapon tribal?
I guess Forsaken Monument is the artifact "granting +2/+2 to a subset of creatures that first appeared in Alpha", with that subset being colorless creatures (Living Wall represeeeeent). Sneaky that it wasn't a tribe. Anyway, it's nice that pure colorless decks are getting some love.
September 7, 2020 12:29 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #11
New Akiri is interesting as she is a lower cmc and less restrictive Syr Gwyn, Hero of Ashvale. To me that instantly makes her more palatable as Syr Gwyn is sooo expensive and you feel crushed if she gets removed quickly.
Forsaken Monument is immediately going into my Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer
list. Beefing up all my Morphs and gaining 2 life for each one is fantastic. Plus it will help the deck finish games (one area where Kadena usually struggles).
The alternate art for Moraug is freaking sick!
Holy hell is Nahiri's Lithoforming great for lands matters decks! DemonDragonJ, being able to sac lands off this card is not a downside, it's a boon. Lord Windgrace/Korvold, Fae-Cursed King will certainly abuse the heck out of that card, and even my Mina and Denn, Wildborn list will gladly take this.
September 7, 2020 1:10 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor, yes, I understand that sacrificing the lands can be a benefit, but needing to pay mana in addition that is is simply excessive; the spell should have required one or the other form of payment, not both, in my mind.
September 7, 2020 1:27 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #13
Skyclave relic is terrible, in my mind; without paying the kicker cost, it is no different from Manalith, but, with paying the kicker cost, a player spends 6 mana and gets back a mere one; at the very least, the two copies should have entered the battlefield untapped, or the kicker cost could have been lower.
Lithoform engine is quite awesome, and would be great for my Riku of Two Reflections EDH deck, but I am not certain if I can remove a card to make room for it. Also, why does the last ability copy a permanent spell? That has never before been done, before, so why could the ability not simply have been "create a token that is a copy of a permanent that you control?" That way, the player would not need to worry about the timing of the spell.
September 7, 2020 1:39 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #14
I forgot to ask: can lithoform engine copy mana abilities, or not, since they do not use the stack?
September 7, 2020 1:42 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #15
The spell would be way too strong if you only had to sac the lands. It would nearly be Scapeshift 2.0.
Also that Engine is likely already on the rules committee radar. Instantly goes infinite with Dramatic Reversal+mana rocks/dorks. Not quite as powerful as Paradox Engine, but really close.
September 7, 2020 1:42 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #16
DemonDragonJ - yes, mana abilities are activated abilities
September 7, 2020 1:44 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #17
I don't see how the Lithoform Engine could copy mana abilities since it needs to target them. Also, I think the timing issues of the third ability is a feature rather than a bug; all of its activations basically require you to both pay for the original and the copy in one sitting
Skyclave Relic is if nothing else a strictly better Darksteel Ingot. It really is too bad about the tapped copies or it would have been an interesting alternative to Gilded Lotus
Finally, I see Nicol Bolas has made a sneaky return in the guise of a minotaur
September 7, 2020 3:49 p.m.
DragonSliver9001 says... #18
golgarigirl you forgot to mention that the land destruction spell lets the opponent search for a basic land. and with feed the swarm, you lose life. there are better spells for both.
September 7, 2020 4:08 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #19
Lithoforming with Crucible of Worlds & Amulet of Vigor for all your lands is risky but mmmmmmmmmm
September 7, 2020 4:48 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #20
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor, I know that they are activated abilities, but I am wondering if they can be copied, since they do not use the stack.
September 7, 2020 6:51 p.m.
jethstriker says... #21
Any burn players here, Modern or Legacy?
What do we think of this one? Although we already have Klothys, God of Destiny, this at least is a lot closer to Sulfuric Vortex that we can play in modern. In legacy, this punishes diamonds, petals, FoW, and Daze players. However, it's a nonbo with Fireblast.
Wayward Guide-Beast (sorry, can't link this card yet)
How about this one? I initially thought the drawback was huge but someone in another forum pointed out that this triggers Searing Blaze repeatedly. That this makes up for it?
September 7, 2020 10:06 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #22
Scion of the swarm is strictly worse than Archangel of Thune, in my mind, since it has the same mana cost, but no advantages over the angel.
Grakmaw is quite nice, and I imagine that decks that focus heavily on +1/+1 counters will appreciate it.
Shadows' verdict has both a useful effect and awesome artwork, so I like it.
Glasspool mimic is the newest variant of Clone, and its lower mana cost is nice, but I feel that neither that nor its reverse side are sufficient to make it preferable to the numerous other variants of Clone that currently exist (my personal favorites are Progenitor Mimic and Phyrexian Metamorph).
Roost of drakes is very nice, but I feel that it is too narrow in its focus; Talrand, Sky Summoner is better in the majority of situations.
September 8, 2020 12:28 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #23
Roiling vortex seems okay. I would test it.
Wayward Guide Beast is a hard pass. Some burn decks don’t even play Goblin Guide anymore, and Wayward is worse than Goblin.
September 8, 2020 12:33 p.m.
Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor says... #24
Mother of god, Ancient Greenwarden is perfect. Man I love this set.
Grakmaw also looks kind of interesting if you could continuously loop it in and out of the graveyard.
September 8, 2020 1:12 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #25
Greenwarden makes me long even more for Suns_Champion's combat trigger panharmonicon
September 8, 2020 4:28 p.m.
@jethstriker: It's decent for a sideboard card in the right meta. I wouldn't use it at a large event like a Grand Prix, but if your local meta is swarming with people playing suspend cards, Fires of Invention, etc.? I'd say go for it. Just imagine the look on your opponent's face when their Living End is staring at two Rolling Vortex.
@Hi_diddly_ho_neighbor: I was just thinking how Ancient Greenwarden is absolutely nuts in Vintage where Bazaar of Baghdad is your best card. Normally, you wouldn't play Ramunap Excavator because it's an awful Dread Return target. But boarding in a 5/7 Ramunap Excavator to laugh at your opponent's Wastelands? O hell yes pump that shit right into my veins!
September 8, 2020 4:47 p.m.
Coward_Token says... #27
kicker tribal goooo. Note the spell type agnosticism; I'm pretty sure it can copy kicked permanent spells
September 9, 2020 12:29 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #29
Charix: made to not work in the 99 of Arcades or Doran
I can talk about Obun again without feeling bad! Too bad he's still pretty boring.
Geode Rager: I want to love it because of goad, but as a CMC 6 card that requires me to have a steady supply of land drops I can't really fit it in my Marisi deck
Coward_Token says... #1
Anowon, the Ruin Sage decided to stop being a nerd, yet ironically picked up in the process. Anyway, a cmc 4 draw engine in the command zone certainly isn't bad, although I'm sure a lot of Robin Hood fans are disappointed that isn't involved
Obuun seems underwhelming, being seemingly linearly beatdown-focused, and it faces competition from Hazezon Tamar in terms of converting lands into P/T. But hey, animated lands could be decent if the deck ("Land's Wrath") contains enough new support for the archetype
September 5, 2020 11:57 a.m.