Zendikar vs Eldrazi Full list!
Spoilers, Rumors, and Speculation forum
Posted on Aug. 17, 2015, 11 a.m. by Boza
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/arcana/duel-decks-zendikar-vs-eldrazi-2015-08-17
We have 4 new cards and three new abilities!
Devoid - this card is colorless.
Ingest - When ~ deals damage to an opponent, exile the top card of that opponent's deck.
X, Awaken N - If you cast this spell for X, put N +1/+1 counters on target land you control. It becomes a 0/0 elemental creature with haste. It is still a land.
Primal command with bullet points is the highlight for me though! Discuss!
I have corrected the initial post to the correct wording of the mechanic. The wording on awaken still is very confusing. You have to pay 5W in order to use it - not more, not less. Very weird, previously unused wording.
August 18, 2015 5:40 a.m.
RedDiomedes says... #3
Why weird. Its an alternate cost that grants the cards original ability plus an extra ability.
August 18, 2015 5:49 a.m.
Because it is worded unlike ever before: "If you cast this spell for 5W..." rather than the normal "if you cast the spell for its awaken cost".
This could mean (this is before we see the rules for awaken) that if you have Jace's Sanctum out, you cannot cast this card for 5W, so you cannot gain the awaken benefit.
August 18, 2015 5:54 a.m.
jesterskull25 says... #5
Cant wait to put them in my deck......was already waiting on sower for another deck, now waiting on the landfall enchantment....The upcoming "Battle" is gonna be a game changer for sure.
August 18, 2015 8:08 a.m.
RedDiomedes says... #6
Boza interesting catch thanks. Id be surprised if it locks the cost and can never be changed but I see your point now regarding the wording. Time will tell.
August 18, 2015 8:50 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #7
Ghostfire Blade is going to be awesome with Devoid.
August 18, 2015 9:02 a.m.
I'm loving devoid... And I suppose early Eldrazi drops. I just hate Ingest. At least make it so that it is when the creature attacks. You have to get multiple triggers to make it relevant (from what we've seen). I overall prefer annihilator. Well, at least It That Betrays is seeing a reprint.
August 18, 2015 4:35 p.m.
RedDiomedes says... #9
Its likely the Eldrazi will summon back cards that are ingested under their control. Based on the current 1 card we have seen. I don't think its meant to mill people to death. Rather create a pool of cards for later shenanigans.
August 18, 2015 5:03 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #10
Devoid seems pretty lame. Its an ability that has no applicable effect 99.8% of the time, and you need to build around it to make it do anything. Its like, "Heres an ability every artifact creature gets for free, isnt that an amazing ability!?!"
August 18, 2015 6:17 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #11
I think devoid is cool for what it doesn't do. It doesn't allow everyone to stuff the same eldrazi in their deck regardless of color. That's going to encourage more variety, which I think is healthy for the game.
August 18, 2015 11:23 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #12
That's a good point ComradeJim270. It will definitely help diversity in Limited and Standard.
August 19, 2015 1:58 a.m.
RoarMaster says... #13
ComradeJim270 Rasta_Viking29What is different between the new Devoid eldrazi with colors, and the old non-devoid eldrazi with colors? What seperates Pathrazer of Ulamog and dominator drone other than an ability that does nothing? They had old colored and colorless eldrazi, and they have the same thing again, so where is this new diversity comming from you guys speak of?
August 19, 2015 2:54 a.m.
RoarMaster says... #14
Derp not pathrazer, hes colorless :P Insert Nest Invader in his place.
August 19, 2015 2:57 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #15
The fact that with the old colorless Eldrazi, you could put them in your deck regardless of the colors in your mana base. These ones do not allow that. If they have black in their cost for example, you have to run some source of black mana to play them. So they will only appear in decks that have it, yet they still have the benefits and drawbacks of being colorless.
Also, Nest Invader is obviously not colorless. That could easily be relevant.
August 19, 2015 3 a.m. Edited.
RoarMaster, that is exactly it. Devoid feels unnecessary. Why not just a black creature for Dominator Drone. As it stands devoid = colorless color indicator, which is not necessary. There are two camps:
1/ This does not need to be keyworded. I mean, we have Ghostfire as precedent. It is not very wordy to spell it out. This is the same as the Frost Lynx ability being keyworded - unnecessary.
2/ Devoid is a cool way to make colorless eldrazi that require a color. I mean, we had Emrakul's Hatcher in the past, but those were not actual eldrazi creatures, just their allies/offspring. We only saw 3 real eldrazi and they were all colorless.
This a cool way to still make more eldrazi that are colorless as per cannon, have a balanced limited and a keyword that sounds really cool and enables future cards (eg, Vault Skirge would probably be devoid if the keyword existed then)
I am leaning towards camp 2.
August 19, 2015 3:14 a.m.
Devoid indicates that colorless creature (Eldrazi) synergy will exist, e.g. Forerunner of Slaughter.
August 19, 2015 5:52 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #18
Yep, that's pretty much exactly it, Boza. I'm quite firmly in camp 2. I agree that it's a very strange thing to actually keyword, but I don't think doing so is useless.
August 19, 2015 6:40 a.m.
RoarMaster says... #19
Boza Yeah, as you said it seems like unneeded keywording. And since they are always bitching about too many abilitys/keywords, its seems extra odd, unless of course they are going to continue the devoid trend throughout many sets to come perhaps.
ComradeJim270 I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying, probably alot because of my own failed card comparisons. What I was trying to say is that in the original Zendikar block they had both colorless and colored eldrazi, for example take Pathrazer of Ulamog and Emrakul's Hatcher. In New Zendikar we again have colored eldrazi and colorless eldrazi, for example Dominator Drone and Oblivion Sower. So the only difference really is an ability that basically does nothing by itself. If it did benefit you in any way beyond getting around protection from colors(something they are trying to steer away from apparently), it would be because you put specific cards in your deck to support those cards, and its generally bad to have to do that.
August 19, 2015 6:41 a.m.
I love that we have clear examples of camp 1 and camp 2 in adjacent comments :)
The truth is, you are judging the whole set and mechanic on the merit of two cards.
I would really prefer to discuss how awaken does not untap the land it gives haste to, making it essentially cost 1 more if you actually want to attack. That is a glaring oversight IMO.
August 19, 2015 6:47 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #21
Try thinking about it from a metagame perspective rather than a single card one. I'm actually not disagreeing that they ability does nothing by itself (it may do something in concert with other cards as DarkLaw suggested). But in terms of encouraging players to build decks that don't all run the same creatures until everyone is sick of seeing them? It's an intriguing idea.
On a smaller level, it's very possible that the set will have cards that specifically reference Devoid in order to avoid affecting existing cards that are already colorless creatures. That seems like a pretty likely explanation.
August 19, 2015 6:55 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #22
Devoid is relevant to Ugin, Ghostfire Blade, Ultimate Price, and Sphinx's Tutelage right now. There should be a corlorless payoff included in the block and that will synergize with morph/manifest tying in the previous block. I don't see it as pointless or irrelevant
August 19, 2015 9:05 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #23
Yep, there you go. Does nothing for the card by itself... it does many things for card interactions.
August 19, 2015 9:11 a.m.
It is possible that 'devoid' may cause other interactions...
Example: "Creatures you control with devoid gain trample."
This would apply to 'devoid' creatures, but not Artifact creatures, Morph/Manifest, or other colorless creatures.
This would make a 'reason' to keyword devoid... even if there are no such effects in this set/block, it allows for future instances of devoid and the possibility of such effects.
August 19, 2015 9:13 a.m. Edited.
@ Rayenous, not quite. Devoid is not a keyword or a mechanic per se. It cannot be mentioned in that way on cards.
It is a characteristic-defining ability. It is more akin to a fact than a keyword - devoid works in all zones, unlike lifelink, which works only on the battlefield.
For example, a card can say "put target colorless card from exile into your hand". Devoid makes it able to return Dominator Drone to your hand that way, because of the way it functions.
The best way to think of devoid is that we have increased design space for colorless cards, but those cards still limit deckbuilding.
August 19, 2015 9:19 a.m. Edited.
Devoid is still a keyword.
It's a keyword that gives a card the characteristic of "This card has no color".
Something that gives creatures with devoid trample would be no different than an ability that gives all creatures with flying haste.
And the same way that an ability could say "Target spell or permanent gains lifelink until end of turn.", an ability could say "Target spell or permanent gains devoid until end of turn." (making it colorless)
Just because it effects the card in all zones, does not mean 'devoid' is not a keyword.
August 19, 2015 10:21 a.m. Edited.
I just really want to know if spaghetti monster will be in this set, probably not?
August 19, 2015 10:25 a.m.
No Emrakul, he/she/it/that-which-shall-not-be-named is on vacation in the Blind Eternities.
August 19, 2015 10:27 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #29
Also, the odds of annihilator being reprinted in Standard are basically nil... for which I could not be more grateful.
August 19, 2015 10:28 a.m.
That's sad :( I thought It That Betrays was being reprinted though?
August 19, 2015 10:32 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #31
It's being reprinted in the duel deck, but duel decks can contain cards from throughout Magic's history. They are not standard legal.
August 19, 2015 11:18 a.m.
Harashiohorn says... #32
Yeah, instead of any of the good eldrazi where getting their weird smaller friends who "Ingest" instead of "Annihilate". WOTC has pretty much said Annihilator is not coming back because it was so powerful, but Ingest is strikingly worse, insofar as it's only ever useful after you've basically already won. If you exile 5 cards with an ingesting card, then you've already dealt somewhere near 15 damage.
Can someone explain to me why Ingest doesn't just exile when the creature attacks?? That would be a still be a lot less powerful than Annihilator but would be vaguely useful. I know there's cards that interact with these exiled cards but it just seems way too hard to be that viable.
OH and on devoid, I appreciate how it allows for better flavor and story maintenance and might as well be key-worded, but right now it's being used to put Eldrazi in non-ramping color combinations. B/R is not the color combination you want to be in for things that cost 7+ mana, which is annoying.
August 19, 2015 1:20 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #33
Just to clear things up, MaRo has made it pretty clear that Anihilator is not coming back.
August 19, 2015 3:43 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #34
As with most duel decks, I may obtain only several cards from it, and not purchase the entire set. I dislike that Vampire Nighthawk still has the same artwork; that card has been printed many times, now, and the only time that it had different artwork was for its promo version, which is now very expensive. Why could WotC not give that card new artwork?
Avenger of Zendikar being the face card for the Zendikar deck makes perfect sense, but I do find that oblivion sower is somewhat underwhelming, compared to the Eldrazi from Rise of the Eldrazi; its triggered ability is very nice, but it is a one-time ability; that creature should have had a continuous or repeatable ability of some form, to be worthy of being a mythic rare.
The card that most captures my attention in this set is Primal Command, which I consider to be the second most powerful of the original command cycle, with the first being Cryptic Command, naturally. I need that card for a deck that I am building, so a reprint of it is most welcome for increasing its availability and decreasing its price, along with nice new artwork.
August 20, 2015 9:46 p.m.
They better have a good mechanic for the big Eldrazi in this set, otherwise the fans of annihilator (including myself) will be pretty upset. And probably start a riot. This block was hard to do in the first place because WotC has to cater to many audiences, such as landfall fans, land cycle fans, annihilator fans, ally fans, Eldrazi fans, and people hoping for good reprints in the block.
I'm not a fan of this duel deck- primarily due to the lack of... Well... A duel deck theme. The Eldrazi side doesn't feel like Eldrazi, and I have no idea what Zendikar is trying to do. The one thing I will say is that Avenger of Zendikar has irresistible artwork.
August 23, 2015 10:50 a.m.
"This block was hard to do in the first place because WotC has to cater to many audiences..." Isn't that always the truth, DarkLaw. There is no single block where fans have low expectations and there are no single block that has actually satisfied anyone fully, since that is an impossible goal to hold.
just because we saw just the giant eldrazi with annihilator (which is a terribly created mechanic with good flavor as its only benefit), does not mean we have to see the exact same things as before.
When we returned to ravnica, did everybody expect there to be no change to the mechanics of the guilds? No. One of the goals of revisiting something is to improve upon it and ingest is exactly that.
August 24, 2015 2:38 a.m.
@Boza This is debatable. People have different levels of hype for each set. Say, a return to Kamigawa (which is never going to happen) would be less hyped than a return to Alara, just because of how well received Alara was than Kamigawa. WotC is expected to include many older, popular ideas in a revisit to a plane while trying to make the block different, whereas for a block like Theros they have a lot more breathing space and can try more new themes.
Annihilator was arguably only broken because of a few cards, namely Kozilek, Ulamog and Emrakul, which all saw eternal play. Other Eldrazi were only powerful in standard or (to some extent) modern. The same is true with many other mechanics, such as Delve, Transform, Dredge, Miracle, etc. I still don't know why people would rather be killed on turn 6 or 7 by Tasigur, or Entreat the Angels, or Delver, rather than by Emrakul.
For your example of Ravnica, they did indeed change the mechanics. However, they still reprinted shocklands, printed new guild leaders (some of which see play out of standard), and kept the play style of the guilds similar.
August 24, 2015 6:29 a.m.
Different levels of hype is exactly why will never return to Kamigawa. How much hype was there for Khans before fetches were announced? Close to zero.
Design space is not limited by whether or not a plane is revisited. You just have to include a couple of old mechanics with enough design space left (like landfall and allies) and add some new ones (like Ingest) and you have just as much design space as a completely new set.
Were the Eldrazi other than the big 3 played anywhere? Was Hand of Emrakul played anywhere for example? Not that I recall. The problem was eldrazi were too big - the simple ones were not viable as they were just vanilla beaters, while the big ones were never cast for their actual casting cost and were ONLY cheated out, defeating the original purpose of the cards.
Heck, we might not even get any obnoxiously big eldrazi this time around, but large armies of small eldrazi. It is a war we have here.
Tasigur and entreat are fair and can be interacted with, but a t2 or t3 Emrakul that hits you for 15 destroy your board is not quite the definition of fun for most people. again, annihilator is 100% flavor win, but ultimately a gameplay fail.
Well, having things stay relatively the same, that is what is expected of revisit. In any set we see snapshots of what life is on that plane at a particular moment. When we revisit, we get a snapshot X years in the future. In my Ravnica example, around half the guildleaders were new when we revisted (they tend to die) and the old ones had a makeover as well.
- Also, the guilds have established goals and agendas, which define the flavor of the whole plane. You cannot suddenly go "For Ravnica 3, we will have the Gruul be the leaders in Ravnica maintenance - they will pass with brooms over the streets and polish all the lamps in the city. The Gruul Lampwurm will clean lamps with its saliva". That will not really work. Just like you cannot make a sequel to the Terminator with Willy Wonka as the android killer.
However, that does not mean that you cannot have a Lampwurm on another plane with the exact same flavor.
August 24, 2015 7:45 a.m.
@Boza
That's what I said.
There needs to be a certain amount of old returning and new ideas in a set. Hence, for a set that originally had many popular ideas, WotC needs to compromise and cut some for others.
It That Betrays is expensive, so surely it sees play somewhere.
That's why the decks stop you from interacting with them using other cards. Instead of using other cards to stop you, Emrakul has it built in, only you need to use other cards to use Emrakul. Regardless, Emrakul has outs. And, once again, this is an instance of one overpowered card having a mechanic and therefore the mechanic is labelled "unfair". If Annihilator was taken off Emrakul, it would still see Eternal play as an unblockable, unkillable creature that hits for 15 and Time Walks, so you can play Karakas next turn and replay Emrakul after attacking with it.
(I have no idea why the last two statements contradict anything I said before.)
August 24, 2015 8:38 a.m.
What I meant to say here was (in a poorly worded manner) that you cannot measure the amount of hype for BFZ now, when we have just 7 cards total to work with. Khans had next to zero hype until the fetches were spoiled. I would wait until pax this weekend to evaluate the hype for BFZ.
Not really. How many of guild mechanics for Ravnica 2 were the same as ravnica 1? 0. Despite flavor limitation, design space is still there.
A single eldrazi that sees play in EDH. Still, there are really three playable eldrazi in that format as well, since Emrakul is banned.
Big beaters with various protections will always be cheated out. Nobody in 60-card formats actually ramps to eldrazi titans and casts them. Legacy elves do not actually cast Progenitus, they use Natural Order, even though Birchlore Rangers are available.
The problem is not annihilator per se, but annihilator in combination with everything else on the card. Emrakul without annihilator would never be played as casting something like Lingering Souls would just counter your 15/15 monster.
Another way to make annihilator fair would to make it an "on-hit" trigger. As an attack trigger, it is too devastating, as negates your ability to block most of the time.
August 24, 2015 10:38 a.m.
And my point for that was that the original Zendikar block was a huge success. Full art lands? Enemy fetches? Landfall? The ideas behind the block were great. Revisits of popular blocks usually have high expectations of them.
They still printed shocks; had hybrid mana; had many, powerful two-color cards; etc: all of which was present in the original Ravnica block. Sure, they have to imitate it flavor-wise, which is a very convenient reason to do so.
I never want to hear anybody verbally abuse all non-titan Eldrazi again. Unless it's Hand of Emrakul. What a useless card.
Well, that's just abuse to modern Tron and legacy 12-post. 12-post, which mainboards Show and Tell, prefers to put Primeval Titan onto the battlefield instead to fetch ramp. They can then hardcast Emrakul and fetch Karakas and Glacial Chasm. It then goes on until the opponent dies.
Lingering Souls would not counter Emrakul. The tokens are white, and therefore can't block him. Are there any colorless fliers which people actually play (Emrakul does not count)? If there are, please tell me. However, Mindbreak Trap would counter an Emrakul, as would Time Stop.
Anyway, to address your concern that Emrakul would not see play, it probably would. Even if it could be blocked, you would have an extra turn and put immense pressure on your opponent, as it is unlikely that they would have enough colorless fliers to block Emrakul until you die.
August 24, 2015 3:31 p.m.
DarkAurora7 says... #42
DarkLaw Emrakul, the Aeons Torn has protection from colored SPELLS, so creatures can block him.
August 24, 2015 3:40 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #43
@DarkLaw: Colored creatures can block Emrakul. He has protection from colored spells. Creatures on the battlefield are not spells.
August 24, 2015 3:44 p.m.
The first point is starting to run in circles and go nowhere.
Well of course they did, otherwise we would be going to a different plane. The key to iteration is being similar whilst having new ideas. You cannot expect ford to innovate next year's Ford Focus by making it an SUV instead of the sedan it has been for the past 20 years.
I really do not get it? Did I verbally abuse a card in any way? If so, I apologize to it, but an Eldrazi should have a thicker skin than that. Anyways, Not of This World, Pathrazer of Ulamog, Spawnsire of Ulamog, Skittering Invasion, Spawnsire of Ulamog, Ulamog's Crusher (I enjoy it in pauper tho) and even Artisan of Kozilek are bad cards as well.
Titan Post has fielded a whole 7 decks in top8s in 2015. The far more popular use of show and tell, Omni-tell, boasts 95 top8s. The more likely home of 12 post (MUD) has 21 top8s. I would not say that 12 post or show and tell players prefer the Titan version, though it is out there.
Also, between the eldrazi titans, there is 1 clear winner in the likes of Emrakul and a sheer drop before we reach the rate of playability of the other 2 titans. The Eldrazi are too wild, they were developed so improperly that there are large power gaps between the three main guys (2 guys and 1 girl actually), not to mention the rest of their "tribe".
August 24, 2015 4:16 p.m.
TheFoilAjani says... #45
DarkLaw, Mindbreak Trap cannot counter Emrakul, the Aeons Torn as Emrakul has protection from all coloured spells, thus not allowing you to target Emmy.
August 24, 2015 4:32 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #46
Mindbreak Trap can counter Emrakul; the protection ability does not come into play until Emrakul resolves and becomes a permanent.
August 24, 2015 4:36 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #48
Emrakul seems to confuse a lot of people. I'm not sure why. It's "protection from colored spells" and says so right on the card. Maybe it's because that's a weird thing that you don't usually see.
But colored permanents can block it, target it with abilities, etc. Royal Assassin can kill it, Oblivion Ring can exile it, etc. You can chump it with a 1/1 spirit token. Spells that target it on the stack do work, you can even attempt to counterspell it you want (though nothing will happen). Anything that ends the turn or exiles it from the stack will stop it from resolving. You can also target it when it hits a graveyard in response to its trigger.
You just can't damage or target it with a colored spell when it's on the battlefield. That's all.
August 24, 2015 5:19 p.m. Edited.
Protection from colored spells? Ugh. That piece of information has single-handed ruined my day. Ah well. Mindbreak Trap is still my go-to out.
@Boza Eldrazi... Have genders?
August 24, 2015 5:48 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #50
Well it's good to know, DarkLaw. I've heard of people losing games solely because they didn't understand this.
Schuesseled says... #1
Actually it doesn't say until end of turn anywhere on the awaken mechanic. It's rather cool
August 18, 2015 5:23 a.m.