Abzan Card List
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on Jan. 28, 2016, 11:47 p.m. by allyrallytally
I need some card sugestions to make either and Abzan aggro or Abzan Midrange deck, that is made for tournaments.
But in all honesty, cards like Anafenza, the Foremost, Den Protector, Heir of the Wilds, Warden of the First Tree, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Abzan Charm, and Dromoka's Command all make decent inclusions for aggro decks, alongside Siege Rhino.
January 28, 2016 11:55 p.m.
EXCALIBRAHHHH says... #4
Have a look at my abzan enchantments deck, not standard anymore but was amazing
January 28, 2016 11:56 p.m.
EXCALIBRAHHHH says... #7
Depends what deck it is going into. In general I would pick Sorin over any planeswalker... hahaha
January 29, 2016 12:11 a.m.
wasianpower says... #8
Sorin is better for token-y strategies - works well with Secure the Wastes and Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. Some other cards I would consider for Abzan mid/aggro are Nissa, Voice of Zendikar and Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim.
January 29, 2016 12:14 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #9
You can also side-in Sorin against aggressive decks. It's a good way of bailing you out after you have stabilized but still risk dying to random burn spells.
I have been playing Abzan the past couple rotations, and I think going forward my two-drop of choice will actually be Sylvan Advocate. Later in the game it makes your Shambling Vents into 4/5 and Hissing Quagmires into 4/4, which is pretty gas.
It also randomly becomes Tarmogoyf which is also nice.
The list I am thinking is something like:
3 Hissing Quagmire
4 Shambling Vent
2 Canopy Vista
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Smoldering Marsh
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Warden of the First Tree
3 Sylvan Advocate
3 Den Protector
4 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
4 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
4 Abzan Charm
6 between Dromoka's Command and other assorted removal spells
January 29, 2016 1:32 a.m. Edited.
I like the list but I might try and work in 4 Oath of Nissa which seems pretty gross in Abzan creature decks.
January 29, 2016 9:35 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #11
Oath of Nissa smooths out your draws and increases your chance of curving out and having one of those 2-drop-3-drop-4-drop starts that are so hard to answer. But even assuming you manage to fit the 4 Oaths in the six flex slots I had at the end. About 0.5% of the time, it straight up bricks. Around 21% of the time, you will have to take a land, which most of the times is not what you are looking for considering the deck plays 26 of them. You could build the deck having in mind the idea that you are going to sometimes use the Oath to find land, and cut a couple lands, but then you are cutting valuable man-lands.
Maybe you have to cut the whole fetch package to allow your deck to play less lands. My gut tells me that even with Oath of Nissa, that is going to make your mana a decent bit worse. But maybe this allows you to play a bunch of painlands and splash colorless for Eldrazi Displacer? Blinking your Rhinos and Rocs seems pretty gross.
I'll need to think about it. My gut tells me that playing 26 lands and 0 Oaths is better, but maybe I am wrong.
January 29, 2016 10:42 a.m.
allyrallytally says... #12
I like the lists. Does anyone see any advantage to having:Abzan Dragon RidersDragonlord DromokaDromoka the EternalWolfbane, Abzan Dragon
on the side board?
January 29, 2016 10:43 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #13
Maybe Dragonlord Dromoka for the control matchup, although maybe there are better options.
January 29, 2016 11:04 a.m.
allyrallytally says... #14
These would mostly be just 1 card in the sideboard. The main creatures I have for a fact are 4x Hangarback Walker 4x Siege Rhino and 4x Anafenza, the foremost
January 29, 2016 11:15 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #15
Depending on your metagame, if there are a bunch of decks like Rally the Ancestors in your metagame, maybe you might want to add some number of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as Anafenza number 5 (and maybe 6).
Also there are really four different possible two-drops the deck could use. Hangarback Walker has the highest late-game upside, but requires the most mana investment as the game goes on. Snapping Gnarlid packs the most early-game punch, at the price of being kind of an awful top-deck. Sylvan Advocate and Heir of the Wilds are kind of between these extremes, with Advocate being closer to the Hangarback end of the spectrum and Heir being closer to the Gnarlid end. I think Advocate is the best fit for my metagame right now, but that might not be the same for you.
January 29, 2016 11:38 a.m.
TheRedMage: I hope you don't mind me showing the percentages. I'm assuming you used a hyper-geometric distribution? This is for anyone interested in the full suite of numbers.
For Lands only
14% 0 Lands
40% 1 Land
36% 2 Lands
10% 3 Lands
For Creatures only
23% 0 Creatures
45% 1 Creature
27% 2 Creatures
5% 3 Creatures
But what gets interesting is the following which is using a multivariate approach, giving you the percentages (approximately, I've rounded off a bit for brevity) for all of the different 3 card draws assuming 25 lands (26 minus the one used for Oath), 20 creatures and 53 remaining cards in the deck (60 minus the opening 7). This is where the "you have to take a land around 21% of the time" statement comes from. My thought is the bottom, which cumulatively means you have 63% change of having to choose a land or a creature.
.1% 0 Both
3% 1L & 0C
10% 2L & 0C
9% 3L & 0C
2% 0L & 1C
6% 0L & 2C
5% 0L & 3C
17% 1L & 1C
20% 1L & 2C
26% 2L & 1C
I also don't consider having to take a land a problem, as it just means you're that much less likely to draw a land the following turn.
January 29, 2016 2:18 p.m.
TheRedMage says... #17
I wasn't using hypergeometric because I wa sjust doing a back-of-the-envelope calculation. The underlying assumpion was that on average the ratio of lands to spells in your deck minus your initial hand is the same as your whole deck. I understand that this is not true for any actual hand, but it is true on average and I was really looking for a ballpark estimate.
It is also worth mentioning that the deck doesn't really needs help curving out. It does a reasonable job of that by itself. What the deck would love is a way to dig for instants, sorceries and enchantments because as the game goes long you find yourself wanting answers. Conveniently enough, Oath of Nissa finds exactly zero of those types. In that situation, I DO mind having to take a land.
My intuition tells me that the card does not belong in the current configuration of Abzan, partly because it wants you to cut lands that you can't really shave. It is possible I am wrong. If in testing you find that the card overperforms, do let me know and share your list. I would be interested in knowing.
January 29, 2016 2:55 p.m.
allyrallytally says... #18
What are your opinions on Rakshasa Deathdealer in a competative deck?
January 30, 2016 11:20 a.m.
I feel like it's a worse Fleecemane Lion, but could maybe see play. It's just fighting with a few other two drops in Den Protector, Sylvan Advocate and Heir of the Wilds and somewhat with Warden of the First Tree.
February 1, 2016 8:21 a.m.
Especially before Dragons and the advent of Den Protector, Rakshasa Deathdealer had a change to see play. But with the rotation of Theros block, there are so many other preferable 2-drops. Sylvan Advocate is a nice way to keep footing in the mid to late game matchups.
February 1, 2016 9:55 a.m.
TheRedMage says... #21
It's mostly that these decks can't really produce the amount of 
they used to when Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth was legal and that makes that card a decent bit worse
February 1, 2016 1:05 p.m.
allyrallytally says... #22
I can see how things change when you look at the type of format for building a deck especially since I am working in standard. Appreciate the help.
GotCubes says... #2
Siege Rhino :)
January 28, 2016 11:53 p.m.