"Bant Dragons" Viability
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 14, 2015, 10:32 a.m. by ducttapedeckbox
I have been working on a brew that is based on an Esper shell but runs green over black. It has been working in testing thus far, but I'd like some more input.
Do I need board wipes? What matches are going to be the hardest? Do I need a fourth Dig? More removal?
I would like to note that this is solely for FNM play, and I will not be investing in JaceVP.
ducttapedeckbox says... #3
Thanks, Boza. I completely forgot about Orator of Ojutai. That would make more sense than the Visionary.
I can't tell if your "Impressive green cards!" comment is sarcasm or not, but don't forget Den Protector! :)
What else does red give for this deck? Roast in the side maybe? Maybe the need will become more apparent as I test more.
What do you think about the dragon count? I think 5 is fine to warrant both Scorn and Orator, but there's a comment on the deck itself (which I'm about to respond to) that suggests I need more.
I've only played two matches online (against other brews), but Ojutai's Command was an all-star in all four games. The recursion of an Orator/Visionary for a draw/blocker or Arashin Cleric for 7 life and a blocker is incredible, especially against aggressive red decks.
October 14, 2015 1:27 p.m.
Written sarcasm is very hard to convey. I am not impressed with the green cards mentioned, but Den Protector is solid as per usual (when did it go to 16$?), that is why it is not mentioned.
I may have been wrong on first impression on the OJ Command. It was more of a knee-jerk reaction (no baby jace = no reason for command)
I am playing 6 dragons in my wUB Dragons, but I have seen people go to 8 or 10, so it will require some playtesting. I like the deck direction though and will do some goldfishing and report back.
October 14, 2015 2:26 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #5
That's what I thought, Boza. None of the green cards are overly powerful, but it's been decent in goldfishing and in the few games I've played. It's really tough judging a JaceVP-less control deck, and he does make O-Command very good.
I'm currently toying around with my options. I don't like playing straight-up netdecks, so I wanted to try something other than Esper, and Dromoka is pretty powerful so I said why not. It also helps that I picked up my set of DenProts when they were cheap, so if I end up playing Esper, I can hopefully trade them into the rest of the deck.
Let me know what you think after some looking- remember that I'm just playing at FNM, so I don't need to be top tier. Also, if I were to up the dragon count, what would I add? Icefall? Hopefully not another Ojutai, lol.
October 14, 2015 2:40 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #6
Lumbering Falls is a pretty good reason to play Green. I also really like Sagu Mauler & Jaddi Offshoot out of the sideboard.
If you're into ramping, which I like because it means board wipes on turn 4 (btw I say yes to wipes obviously), Natural Connection is decent since it's an Instant, while Embodiment of Spring is another option that can absorb some damage.
October 14, 2015 3:24 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #7
@ ChrisHansonBiomancin, Sagu Mauler is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how well he'd fare coming in from the sideboard. I already mainboard Dromoka, who also fills that spot. Jaddi Offshoot could replace Arashin Cleric depending on testing and how much life each nets.
I don't think the deck really needs ramp, it would take up valuable card slots for counter magic and removal.
October 14, 2015 3:41 p.m.
What I felt sorely missing after some goldfishing - I do not think there are enough control elements (add mass removal Planar Outburst), early-mid card draw (is there something like Divination? Don't know every single card) and I certainly did not see the dragons too often, but always wanted one in my hand.
1 Sunscorch Regent and 1 Icefall Regent will do well to boost the dragon count. 3 Planar Outburst should come in. -1 land, -2 DroCo (not enough dudes for it) and 2 other cards. If you are including planar outburst, consider more Scatter to the Winds for more land dudes.
3 visionary should be replaced by 3 Orator of Ojutai just for the better body.
The SB is in a good place right now. I like where the deck is and its results are supporting this :)
October 15, 2015 3:08 a.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #9
Completely agree, Boza. Card draw and mass removal are two pieces the deck severely lacks. I was actually considering Tragic Arrogance main as a pseudo Crux of Fate, which I have yet to test out. The lack of early card draw is the kick-in-the-ass for not having JaceVP, and it is very hard to remedy that situation.
I like the addition of two more dragons, and removing the two D-Commands for them. As for a sweeper, I was looking at dropping the DenProt count to 3 - he's really not great until mid- to late-game. Maybe that and a land for two Planar Outburst or Tragic Arrogance?
I originally really liked the Orator change, but his draw trigger is on cast and won't go off from a O-Command reanimation. For that reason, I'm leaning towards keeping Visionary.
I'm very happy with the results. Even though I have only played four matches, I've thoroughly enjoyed piloting this deck. I love how it can come off looking like a weird Megamorph deck, and then boom countermagic! I'm going to do some more testing today/this weekend, and hopefully pit it against something like Abzan Aggro or Jeskai Black and see how it fares against the top decks.
My big decision right now is whether or not this is worth building over Esper Dragons. I like playing "different" decks, but if I'm putting this much effort (and trade fodder) towards a deck, I want it to also be able to win... haha. I have nearly everything for either build aside from the tangos and Windswept Heaths (and an Ojutai).
Boza says... #2
Petition to call baby jace JaceVyP from now on :)
Currently, you have green in there for 2 commands, 3 visionaries, 2 dromoka and a plummet. Impressive green cards!
I would recommend going four colors and going red. Red gives you access to Radiant Flames which kills everything but your dragons. You can then splash the green for dromoka or even atarka.
If you do that, you can sub Visionary for Orator of Ojutai, the commands for Flames (-2 Ojutai Command perhaps).
Lets call it Jeskai Green.
October 14, 2015 11:13 a.m.