Does delirium have a chance right now?
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on July 22, 2016, 12:03 a.m. by SpiderFerg
I love playing with delirium but it has obvious weaknesses and isn't currently played in big tournys. So two questions:
- Predictions on if my deck will compete?
- What are the biggest cards/combos/decks that I should be aware of that would beat me (badly)?
My deck:Grim Delirium
Thanks!
I like what I've seen of the delerium decks, but I think the biggest problem is consistent ways to generate card advantage. Having multiple spells that put cards in your graveyard, often I've seen the delerium decks stall when their initial threats are answered. Reflector Mage isn't a problem against Ishkanah, Grafwidow as long as you already have delerium established so you get the tokens. It does have a good curve though with Grim Flayer. Liliana, the Last Hope, Mindwrack Demon, and Ishkanah, Grafwidow. Plus Deathcap Cultivator and The Gitrog Monster work great in the deck. Like I said the biggest problem I've seen seems to be disruption, a couple creatures get removed, the wrong cards get milled, then they end up behind trying to catch back up.
July 22, 2016 3:30 a.m.
Soul Swallower and Mindwrack Demon are the two threatening cards I have seen play prior the EMN. But the best enable I have seen used has been Vessel of Nascency which had turn 3 delerium
July 22, 2016 4:29 a.m.
Delirium's a thing for sure; I persoanlly prefer 2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet in this list than the 3rd and 4th Mindwrack demon. Eldritch Evolution means you can sacrifice a token for another Sylvan Advocate or Grim Flayer or sac the Elvish Visionary for a Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet or Mindwrack Demon.,
Enchantments 6Instants 5Artifacts 4Creatures Sorcery 5Planeswalker 4
The deck cycling this can do is unreal.
Land
5 Forest
2 Swamp
July 22, 2016 7:46 a.m.
I clearly love Delirium, since I started the Delirium forum. With that said, I do not think that a dedicated Delirium deck will be successful at the pro tour level. Some of my reasons include:
- Many of the top decks do not revolve around a mechanic.
The top decks are, for the most part, very lean. They only include cards that provide either card advantage, board presence, or control your opponent. Look at G/W Tokens or Bant CoCo. They are looking to play the best cards for their given colors. Period. In the case of G/W Tokens, the card choices are fairly straight forward. A full playset each of Gideon and Nissa, Efficient and powerful creatures, Dromoka's Command for doing everything, and then filled out with some removal such as Declaration in Stone. Bant company is basically playing the best creatures that are under 3 mana. Fill that out with the other two best cards in the format in Collected Company and Dromoka's Command and that's the entire deck. Which is why it is so consistently good.
- Delirium requires you to play lots of card types.
This gives you lots of diversity in what cards you get to play, but it also forces you to slot in cards like Vessel of Nascency. I find this card to be terrible. It achieves delirium essentially by itself, that's great, but Oath of Nissa (a card that does see standard play) provides essentially the same card advantage for 2 less mana. It can also makes you slot in artifacts or sorcery cards that rarely see play, such as Gather the Pack for the sole purpose of achieving delirium. Admittedly, there are good cards you can slot into this spots, such as Hangarback Walker, but adding more card types can cause you to be less lean than the above decks which can cause your deck's consistency to go down.
Now that I have crapped on Delirium, let me expound upon why I think a deck with Delirium can work in Standard.
- You get access to one of the best colors in Standard (and a good color that is getting better).
We all know that G/W have taken over standard, well one of those colors is in every Delirium deck on this site. You can use so many great cards such as Sylvan Advocate, Nissa, Voice of Zendikar, Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip, Tireless Tracker among others. You also get access to some really great black cards that the G/W/x decks don't play such as Mindwrack Demon which is so strong in standard right now since it is a flier, Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet, Languish, Liliana, the Last Hope, and the card that makes running a deck with delirium more viable Grim Flayer.
- You are in a shell that can leverage Emrakul, the Promised End
There is no telling how good this card will be, but in my initial playtesting and playing against it, She is pretty much a game winner if you are able to cast her. When my opponent cast her, he attacked my biggest creature into Emrakul and killed it, cleared as much of my board as he could through removal and other methods, leaving me with one insignificant creature. He was left with a 13/13 trample flier and it was game over.
- The deck options are diverse and that also makes for a very diverse sideboard
Being in G/B makes it so you can go aggro, control, midrange, ramp. You can also take a token strategy and go toe to toe with G/W tokens and see who wins. You have cards that can deal with small creatures in Languish, Flaying Tendrils, and the scourge of token decks everywhere Virulent Plague. You have cards to deal with other control decks in Duress, Transgress the Mind, Whispers of Emrakul, and Distended Mindbender. You also get one of the strongest (in my opinion) manlands Hissing Quagmire. This is just touching on the diversity of decks you can make in G/B. You can also go G/B/x to get access to Anguished Unmaking, Declaration in Stone just to name a few.
While this is certainly just my opinion and I could be completely off base, but the above reasons are why I think that a straight delirium deck isn't very viable in Standard. However, a G/B(/x) deck with some delirium cards can certainly be viable. I think EMN filled in the holes left by the previous sets to push a deck in this theme over the top. It will just take a deck builder more skilled and intelligent than I to do it.
EmblemMan says... #2
I have tested some delirium decks nothing too extensive but a few different lists and stuff and the problem is you arent doing anything that powerful. The cards with the key word delirium often times arent enough of a payoff to play them except Grim Flayer and Ishkanah, Grafwidow. What are the things that will beat you? Reflector Mage Spell Queller Elder Deep-Fiend things that just set you back even farther by bouncing your mindwrack or countering key cards or just tempo-ing you out of the game. I think there is a deck that can utilize some deliruim cards effectively but I just dont know if you want a whole delirium deck. Either way feel free to test your deck and see what works for you!
July 22, 2016 12:10 a.m.