Elves and general creature aggro strategies
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on Aug. 18, 2015, 2:45 p.m. by thewyzman
My deck:
Elfses (Golgari) Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 0 | 2 COMMENTS | 198 VIEWS
The question I have comes from a recent rash of beyond-dismal performances. With a set ofShaman of the Pack, pretty much the only win-con of the deck, the idea would be to flood the board with elves... but with all the weenie wraths out there (anger, drown, languish), it begs the eternal questions around swarm strategies like these that I'm relatively inexperienced with as a midrange player:
How much is too much, and how much is good?
How can I build a board, but not overcommit?
Using mana to play elves, versus conserving it to play Collected Company?
Any advice would be appreciated. I have to believe elves are better than a 1-8 deck.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #3
When I think of elves two things come to mind; Aggro and/or Ramp. The new elves aren't too bad in standard, but I feel they need more to be competitive. I would say Elves, ramping into say Gaea's Revenge would be a good way to go. However, as mentioned above boardwipes are your biggest issue. Not much for recurrence in the new set and Whip of Erebos will only last til October, however there is the new set to consider. It will likely include more elves and other goodies that will replace some of the things we will lose come rotation.
August 18, 2015 4:11 p.m.
nobodygaming says... #4
An option for low power elves is to burn through whatever defence your opponent establishes with cheap black cards like Thornbow Archer and Foul-Tongue Shriek
All of a sudden having 5 creatures on the board and swinging is probably swinging for 6-8 damage even before blockers are declared. If Shaman of the Pack enters in the same turn, that just might end some games
August 18, 2015 8:22 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #5
One thing that's easy to miss about Company is that it's multipurpose. You read the card and think it's there to help you flood the board, but you can also hold it back and fire it off after a boardwipe so you still have a presence.
I play aggro in Standard and usually against control I'll just race. You really, really don't want to sandbag very much. It's a lot better to have them at 7 or 8 on turn three and get all your dudes Languished to death than to hold back and have them at twice that. Control and Midrange want you to slow down. If you learn to anticipate when they're likely to drop Languish or Drown you can throttle down just before that and then hit the gas again once it hits. They have a rhino after Languish? Good thing you've got a Hero's Downfall in hand and your stuff's cheaper to play.
One thing that's tricky going from midrange to aggro is realizing your creatures are a lot more expendable. You expect them to die a lot, but you just replace them.
August 18, 2015 11:56 p.m.
Where the idea is creature swarm and CoCo, I'm not currently running any removal (seems like the way to be according to most elf players)... so then the challenge becomes how to play when my opponent drops something as simple as an Arbor Colossus that will gladly eat any elf it desires coming at it. Then that becomes one less elf for Shaman of the Pack, Foul-Tongue Shriek, etc. I think missing removal is one of the single-most uncomfortable feelings/adjustments to playing a deck like this. I know my elves are expendable, but like the old Fanatic of Mogis strat, having a strong creature presence for ETB burns becomes the win-con.
August 19, 2015 7:30 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #7
I'd run some spot removal in your sideboard at least. It's an excellent tool but not needed in every matchup.
Ideally, Shaman should be your finisher. It's not really your only win condition; smacking the crap out of people with elves should work pretty well. If you do that well, you won't need a ton on the field for the Shaman to get in that last bit of damage. Midrange and control decks are slower than you are and you should exploit that!
I don't run elves, I run W/B warriors; but a lot of the concepts are the same. Brutal Hordechief is a fantastic finisher against these very same decks and does get better the more creatures I have. But I can't count on him always being there when I need him, so I'm going to get in as many beats in as I can until he hits the field. Once he does, I may only need two or three warriors on the field to finish my opponent; if the Hordechief trigger isn't lethal, combat damage often is. I imagine you should be able to have a similar gameplan with elves.
August 19, 2015 7:47 a.m.
A lot of my friends who play Elves have thrown Managorger Hydra in their decks as a backup plan.
Personally, I don't think it hurts to have a few surprises up your sleeve like some Titanic Growth.
August 19, 2015 10:37 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #9
Let me try and put this another way that may be more helpful. I'm going to address your original questions, starting with the first two in a way that's applicable to aggro decks in general. Aggro is my favorite constructed archetype and I've been taking pains to learn its ins and outs.
"How much is too much, and how much is good?"
This is a challenging thing to gauge. I think some players who do a lot of midrange and control think aggro is easy, but it's actually just as challenging in different ways. Sequencing becomes absolutely critical, and you need to make very efficient use of your mana, even if you have as much as elves can produce. You even have an edge with elves in that you can curve out (as aggro decks should strive to do) while leaving a little mana open for combat tricks and such.
If you're hitting your curve and keeping pressure on your opponent you're doing well. You can throttle down a bit if needed, but it's almost never a good idea to fully let up. If you keep running out of gas before you can get in for lethal you're probably overextending yourself. I'd practice the deck as much as you can to get a feel for when this happens.
You say you play midrange. Think about what happens once you get to midgame with a deck like that. You're playing your threats, you're beating down your opponent, you're putting them on the defensive. With aggro? You do that starting turn one.
How can I build a board, but not overcommit?
You're in a rough spot here. I've been there too; I used to play more midrange and when I switched to playing aggro it was tough to find that balance. It becomes easier once you get a feel for when your opponent is likely to make their move. Against control you're quite safe for the first couple of turns. They can 1-for-1 you but it's no big deal most of the time. Your creatures are cheap, you can play more.
A control player isn't going to drop Languish for shits and giggles. They're going to do it when it's either going to set you back or when not doing so means they're going to lose. That's the whole reason they run stuff like that. If their board state is such that using a spell like that will put them in the same position as you, they're not likely to cast it.
Anything that helps you to stabilize faster than they planned is good. For elves, Collected Company is the big one. If you see a Languish coming, you can float mana in response and then fire it off after their wipe resolves. You will still have a board and can resume your assault.
I'll post more specific stuff on the deck's page.
khaos2639 says... #2
Flood the board with as much as you need in order to be in control of the game... but don't over commit yourself to the point where if they board wipe you, you have to start all over and you're helpless.
I usually play with the theory... if I play this... what's the worst that could possibly happen? Ok... if that happens... will I be ok?... if the answer is yes... go for it.
If you have 10 creature cards that are all 1/1s (as elves usually are).. and you dump 5 of them on the table, and swing through for 5 damage. That's good... That's enough to win the game in 4 rounds. Good job.
If they board wipe you... you're ok... because you can rebuild.
If you dump all 10 of them on the table... and swing for 10... yes, that's slightly better... but if they board wipe you... you just lost the game. That's gambling.
Don't get greedy... don't over commit... and always have a plan B. Control players always have a plan B in their hand. They usually have Plans C through F too.... if you're over committing... you're gambling that they have no Plan B and that you'll survive in top deck mode all game.
August 18, 2015 3:33 p.m. Edited.