Esper Control Post Rotation Removal Help
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on April 5, 2016, 11:42 p.m. by Rudmed
My deck:
Mind over Matter
Standard
SCORE: 2 | 5 COMMENTS | 523 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER
Obligatory deck link above!
Now hello everyone, to say the very least, I have fallen in love with Esper. I like the control feel with scary monsters that people panic and fear. However, now that I have felt some of the cards, I have but one question...is this enough removal to get me to my ultimate goal? Can I last long enough against an opponent to get to that good stuff? Or am I trying to do too much at once with planeswalkers and dragons?
Also is the sideboard any good? I tried to spread it out a bit, but give me some guidance with that too!
Please don't be shy, I can handle any constructive criticism.
26 lands is something I agree with, and I will keep you updated once I update the deck.
You might be right about Scorn, I love the card, and I've done it before since blue is my dominant mana base, but Clash of Wills is less mana intensive. And just as good early game too, but it lacks that late game punch. Well it can it depends on how much mana they have.
I will reduce the Anguished Unmaking, and I'm starting to see a pattern here, it is hard to fit all the good stuff in one control unless you want 1 or 2 copies.
Declaration in Stone I FORGOT ABOUT THIS ONE! I will likely add a copy or two of it in the mainboard, it seems good. What are your thoughts on Immolating Glare? Should it see a few copies?
....feels like I have a lot to change.
April 6, 2016 10:16 a.m.
Realistically, it's more of a meta call, but I see it as more of a Side Board card, and most of the decks I would bring it in against Surge of Righteousness is better. Unless Devoid pulls ahead of Vampires and Atarka Red, that is.
April 6, 2016 11:42 a.m.
TheGreatLiar says... #5
First off, i agree with everything Dracoson says above. There are a couple other items i would suggest to help you survive to the late game.
1) More card draw. All your card advantage spells are sorcery speed, and there aren't many of them. I highly suggest Epiphany at the Drownyard. Instant speed is huge, it scales well in the late game, and it helps flip jace and thing in the ice.
2) Fewer big mana spells. Sorin is an amazing wincon. As is ojutai. But when you add in new jace and silumgar, that's a lot of fatties that clutter your hand early and take up valuable card draw and removal space.
3) Ultimate Price is gonna be huge after rotation. The mass of 2-3 color creatures drops heavily. It will have issues with the eldrazi so not a 4 of, but i think it should have a spot here.
April 6, 2016 4:14 p.m.
I've tagged you both because I made a few changes, and would welcome some feedback at the very least. I need to aquire some of these cards, so I have time before this deck is fully finished. I tried to implement your suggestions, and I'll adjust my sideboard a bit to deal with meta once I see everyone is playing. I get the strangest feeling that a control deck very much depends on what everyone is playing. Issue is a new set was just released so no one really knows what works and why at the moment.
To address a few things, that you both have mentioned I'll tag them underneath your names below.
@Dracoson
I took out scorn because I felt TheGreatLiar had a point, I likely had too many fatties, and with 3 dragons it doesn't seem as reliable as it needs to be. Foul-Tongue Invocation is also on a tentative chopping block for this reason as well.
I've added a two of in terms of Declaration in Stone for some early removal along with ultimate price. I removed Ruinous Path due to it's mana cost and sorcery speed. I have Anguish if I really need to kick out a planeswalker or sideboard for that.
@TheGreatLiar
1) I've added one Epiphany at the Drownyard It seem good at this moment, but I have some concerns that I might pitch a few good cards and get less than good cards. There is a lot of good, and risk that card can bring. Also with Ojutai's Command I can draw a card if I don't want to gain life or return a creature to the field.
2) Jace and Silumgar are out, and might stay out for a bit too. Silumgar might be the card I play if they revolve around a planeswalker or some big fat creature...like Ulamog. We'll see how this works! He's likely a sideboard
3) Ultimate prices are in as a 2 of, low drop creature removal and then sideboarded out against the colorless eldrazi.
Let me just say, thank you, for helping me out with this, and I might tag you for more feedback if you both would be willing to help me with a few other ideas I've been working on. If you don't I understand, but you two have helped me out a lot.
April 6, 2016 10:03 p.m.
Really looking good. I will say that the fourth Clash of Wills kind of has diminishing returns. Now that I look at it, three is probably plenty. I also still like having at least one Ruinous Path. And if you're starting to feel kind of meh about Foul-Tongue Invocation, To the Slaughter is in the same camp, but has a new angle.
Now, to weigh in on this card draw/Epiphany at the Drownyard discussion. The card is good. At 
=1-3, it's good. Anything more than that is gravy. Watching an opponent go deep in the tank when they don't want you to get EITHER pile feels glorious (and if you have a transformed Jace, it might not even matter which one they give you). Right now you have Anticipate, which is fine. I think when you resolve Epiphany a few times, you'll drop Anticipate for them.
April 6, 2016 10:38 p.m.
Oh...I have Jace....He gives you...yeah...I take back everything I said...that's not a bad card at all. I just didn't see the synergy between the two, because graduation exams and stuff.
I might go ahead and make that change now.
April 6, 2016 11:08 p.m.
TheGreatLiar says... #9
Bonus epiphany tech. 3 untapped lands, and an untapped jace, means they can't kill jace. They try to kill him, epiphany for x=2, put 3 cards in the same pile. They can give you 3 cards and kill jace, or give you 0 cards, which puts 4 in the gy, and jace flips.
April 7, 2016 12:36 a.m.
I really wish I had seen this stuff sooner, yeah...I think that goes in, it's just too good to pass up. I didn't see it at first, but yeah that card is really good.
Thank you both for the deeper explanation, looks like I got more to learn.
April 7, 2016 1:16 a.m.
Now I hate to revive this, but I had a question for both of you.
What are your opinions on Epiphany and Anticipate rather than Painful truths?
Like x2 Epiphany and x4 anticipates or some variation of those numbers
April 9, 2016 11 p.m.
TheGreatLiar says... #12
The problem is, anticipate is a cantrip. It's not real draw. Painful truths is likely more powerful than Epiphany, as it doesn't offer your opponent any option. It also will always give you 3 cards for 3 mana. Epiphany only gets 3 cards guaranteed if you spend 6 mana.
To give some example, the Grixis build I'm working with for the new standard Thing in the Grixis, is based largely off of the Grixis control builds from before rotation. The typical split pre-rotation was 4 Dig Through Time and 3 painful truths. My new split is 4 epiphany, 3 painful truths.
April 10, 2016 3:09 a.m.
I see so the power of being able to draw a full 3 cards outweighs that of picking one of the three cards from anticipate. Alright, thanks for the feedback, I almost got all my Epiphany's too so that brings me one step closer to playing that deck! Now I just need a few more cards and it'll be good to go!
Thanks again for the help!
Dracoson says... #2
I have a couple of concerns:
- Mana: 24 lands seems really light. You really don't want to miss a land drop for the first 5-6 turns. 26 should be the minimum.
- Silumgar's Scorn: it's not that I don't think the card is good, or that 5 is too few dragons for it to "pay off". It's more of a concern with the new mana bases. Having
available on turn two and then either 
or 
on turn three could be really difficult. Maybe splitting or replacing the slot with Clash of Wills would be easier?
- Anguished Unmaking: 3 seems like too many in the main. I wouldn't want to draw all three without a real lifegain plan, especially since you are also running Painful Truths.
- Declaration in Stone: I would really like to see a copy or two in the main. It's easy to cast with no targeting restrictions, and you'll just randomly get multiple creatures sometimes.
April 6, 2016 9:41 a.m.