Is Aggro Viable with Languish?
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on Aug. 11, 2015, 3:30 p.m. by AwesomeOctopus
So I was thinking about making a B/W warriors tribal deck, because I don't want to have to spend $100 on a standard deck and I like the beatdown, but the biggest problem I can see is that Abzan and Esper Dragons are still popular decks and both will be running Languish. The thought that probably half my opponents will be playing this card which can wipe out basically all my creatures on turn 4 discourages me from trying to build this kind of deck. What do you guys think? Does it make a beatdown deck un-viable?
Thoughtseize and Duress. I run Of Cats and Warriors - 4th place at NJ Regionals! and control is usually a favorable matchup, especially game 1
August 11, 2015 4:20 p.m.
StunForDayz says... #4
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/bw-coco/ I'm not afraid of languish anymore and I love going against control. I'm more scared of an earlier anger of the gods. This deck won me gameday last sunday.
August 11, 2015 4:22 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #5
Languish is the most overrated card in Standard. It's fairly easy to play around and only a handful of decks actually run it. It's a bad card in some match ups so decks that do sellout and run 4x are going to lose to most non-aggro decks. That said B/W Warriors still gets wrecked by most decks. It's a weak synergy deck that gets consistently overpowered and has poor tempo.
August 11, 2015 5:03 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #6
BW Warriors is only viable if you run 3x Brutal Hordechief and 3x Sorin, Solemn Visitor and these cards alone almost put you at where Mono Red is at. Also, BW Warriors only wins if you have the perfect start until Turn 4. It's not Languish you need to worry about, Drown in Sorrow and Anger of the Gods are even more devastating. Don't invest your money in that deck. Go the extra 30 Dollars and build Mono Red. It's just a better deck.
Source: I did the BW Warriors thing for enough online- and FNM-Matches to know what I'm saying.
August 11, 2015 5:31 p.m.
Yeah, guess I'm just a lucker that's been winning with this deck since DTK came out
August 11, 2015 5:54 p.m.
Goody people will just never understand what Meta means it seems
August 11, 2015 6:01 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #9
Weird. The deck has been winning since DTK came out? Where? The Pro Tour? Grand Prix? I must have somehow missed these overwhelming wins. Because I don't see a single Orzhov Aggro or Midrange Deck in the Top 8 of GP San Diego, the Pro Tour Origins, GP Buenos Aires, any of the recent SCG Standard Events in Richmond, Baltimore or Indianapolis, nor at the Grand Prix Providence. I mean, I might be missing something here but the deck might go somewhere, I loved playing it, too, but it is not and will never be anywhere close to Tier 1. The deck regularly loses to an opponent's sequence of Wild Slash into Lightning Strike/Draconic Roar.
August 11, 2015 6:06 p.m.
I've been winning with it, locally and more recently at Regionals. Not anything close to a GP or PT but still winning against the same decks that are in more competitive tournaments. The deck doesn't lose to two removal spells. I've won easily past back-to-back Languish/End Hostilities. I've also lost plenty, but that's the nature of the game.
The deck isn't weak - if you know how to sequence your plays and know how the metagame works, it's better than monored by a longshot.
August 11, 2015 6:11 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #11
Goody congrats on your finish at regionals and doing well at the LGS. Collective results show that B/W is not competitive though and it is certainly not better than mono-red, not a chance.
Honestly I've played B/W Warriors 20 some odd times in tournaments and have maybe lost 2 matches. Regardless of how well the B/W player sequences their plays they will typically not beat Wild Slash into Lightning Strike or Anger of the Gods. The deck should beat Languish into End Hostilities as long as Elspeth is not the follow up.
Also to clear things up: Brutal Hordechief is straight doo doo. The meta is favorable to it when everyone is opting for Searing Blood over Lightning Strike like they have been the past couple weeks. Normally it's trash that trades horribly with removal.
August 11, 2015 6:22 p.m.
It's not trash when you curve into it after Secure the Wastes at the end step when they've played a boardwipe... It's a finisher.
Of course it doesn't post good collective results, people don't really play the deck. And when they do, they play with bad cards like Athreos, God of Passage and Chief of the Scale.
In my opinion, it's a better deck than mono red - whether that's actually true or not depends on how you define "better". It's not really a fact one way or the other unless you're only talking about the results the deck puts up.
August 11, 2015 6:27 p.m.
Yes. It's plenty viable, just not for major tournaments. If you're worried enough about it though, play stuff like Athreos, God of Passage.
August 11, 2015 6:31 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #14
Goody good players don't play the deck or Brutal Hordechief because they're not good. It's as simple as that. I see the deck all the time at FNM and even IQs, it's not like people haven't been playing it.
Mono-red employs a superior strategy, has higher card quality, has more reach, has more card advantage, has better tempo, has a superior mana base, and is on a different world in terms of efficiency. Those are not opinions they are a facts. You're entitled to your own preferences but the truth is the truth.
August 11, 2015 6:38 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #15
I felt like the key word is "reach". Mono Red can just burn the opponent out when they got them to 5. They also have some haste dudes at their disposal, which helps a lot. In Orzhov, I always felt like "Hey, I drew a good one. Now it only needs to live until damage dealing phase and of my next turn" which, in most games, never was the case at some point.
I'm not saying the deck can't be done, and I'm not saying it isn't fine but it just doesn't compete with Mono-
. Not for me at least, and not in an overall, global metal.
August 11, 2015 6:46 p.m.
Brutal Hordechief, Secure the Wastes, Blood-Chin Rager, Sorin, Solemn Visitor are all cards that give the deck reach.
August 11, 2015 8:34 p.m.
Curving a Bloodsoaked Champion into Chief of the Edge into Arashin Foremost is a much better curve than anything mono red can do, btw
August 11, 2015 8:39 p.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #18
thanks for the input. yeah I already knew b/w warriors wasn't tier 1, but more important to me is just having something to play at FNM that can hold its own and doesn't cost a lot, I'm not a spikey player, I draft most of the time actually
August 12, 2015 12:30 a.m.
Abzan warriors can be very good.
Coco and Abzan Ascendency are very good cards for it. Den protector is a warrior.
B/W doesn't offer enough.
August 12, 2015 8:45 a.m.
Warden of the First Tree becomes a warrior also. I haven't played abzan warriors at all but I feel like the mana base just isn't there. The taplands might make it too slow, why not just play normal abzan
August 12, 2015 5:47 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #21
I just run Athreos and a Return to the Ranks or two. Languish has never done more than set me back a turn, which is usually not enough.
And B/W warriors is a perfectly fine deck for FNM, I've seen it top 8 numerous times at a very crowded venue with a healthy and varied meta. The fact that it's not winning at the professional level doesn't mean it's crap.
August 12, 2015 6:20 p.m.
Goody, I have a friend I respect a lot playing abzan warriors and while the mana-base can be an issue in rare instances, it is pretty solid with G/W fetches, llanowar wastes and urborg.
It just gives what is an aggro shell surprising staying power and reach. It's really tough to attack into 4 open mana knowing a collected company will change the battlefield. If you are board-wiping and EOT coco is terrible. Abzan ascendency and bloodsoaked champion keep creatures on the field constantly. Sorin provides lots of lifegain for drawn out games and arashin's foremost usually swings combat in his favor.
I'd also add that his sideboard is basically a more traditional abzan build with siege 4 rhinos, blights, thoughtseize, banishing light.... I forget what else but it can transform to a more midrange abzan build.
It can be a strong build.
August 12, 2015 9:45 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #23
Gerry Thompson featured a couple Warrior decks on SCG today, they're base G/W.
August 12, 2015 10:14 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #24
Oh wow, those lists look like fun. I could easily switch over to those if my B/W warriors continue to have trouble with the current meta.
HavokX says... #2
I run a Jeskai tempo deck that plays like an aggro deck. I get wrecked game 1 by control, but then I side in Negate and Stubborn Denial and play more conservatively, and the scales are much more tipped in my favour. Maybe splash blue for those and possibly Disdainful Stroke to deny them their planeswalkers and hexproof dragons? Bonus points since it also hits Languish.
August 11, 2015 3:51 p.m.