Mono-Red or Atarka Red???
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on June 4, 2015, 10:45 p.m. by Pemdas77
Is the version of Mono-Red that runs 4 Eidolon of the Great Revel, 4 Ashcloud Phoenix, and 4 Thunderbreak Regent in the main board better than Atarka Red? Specifically, is it better in the Abzan matchup? I have yet to beat Abzan with Atarka Red...
Thats a good point but doubling that damage with Atarka's Command is crippling. In many cases, I can finish off an opponent with a few burn spells. Unless it's Abzan of course because Siege Rhinos come in herds with Sorin, Solemn Visitor as their shepherd. But wouldn't mono red face the same issues?? Also, just out of curiosity, have you played with any of these decks? I just want to know what side your coming from.
June 4, 2015 11:48 p.m.
My brother, Nixin72, lives and breathes red mana, so he has built and switched between both versions of the deck. I have played both with and against both decks many many times. Both are good, but I feel like the late game potential of the fliers in the mono-red build is really really powerful.
While Sorin, Solemn Visitor and multiple Siege Rhino is extremely difficult to win against, it can be done, and the mono-red version can just do it better.
June 4, 2015 11:53 p.m.
Ok, thanks for the advice. How do you guys feel about the rest of the standard matchups? Are there any cases where Mono-Red slacks compared to Atarka? I just want to prepare my sideboard well for its weaknesses, i think im going to play it in GP Charlotte.
June 5, 2015 midnight
Both are very fast, so both will naturally do good against any control deck you face. This particular match, I feel like the atarka version has the advantage, because it is just a bit faster, because doesn't have to spend a turn doing nothing to cast Thunderbreak Regent. The advantage mono-red has over atarka in the control match is that is makes Crux of Fate especially awkward to cast, but generally I prefer the atarka version against control anyway.
I don't know as well the other matchups. Usually I play my control deck when we play, and he does the rest of his testing at fnm.
June 5, 2015 12:09 a.m.
I have done minimal playtesting with Thunderbreak Regent, definitely not as much as I'd like to have done, but I find it isn't fantastic in the control match up. For control, Atarka red is much better. Hordeling Outburst and Dragon Fodder are incredible in the matchup because both of them allow you to cast only one spell to gain a significant board advantage. Because against control you never want to comit more than you're willing to lose to the board. Both versions however have Lightning Berserker and Zurgo Bellstriker who are really good in the control matchup because they have to respond immediately. They can't hold back on a Drown in Sorrow and they can't just wait to see their next top deck before killing it. Crux of Fate while looking at a Thunderbreak Regent certainly can be awkward, but as a 4 drop, I'd sideboard him out against control anyway to try and get slightly more aggressive.
I haven't yet played mono-red against Abzan unfortunately, but like TheHroth said, Thunderbreak Regent and Ashcloud Phoenix punish them a lot, and the ashcloud forcing them to 2 for 1 your creature is invaluable and is something that red as a color lacks strongly. So in the Abzan matchup, I'd say mono-red has significant advantages. You can also be returning Flamewake Phoenix with mono-red, so having 8 creatures that force your opponent to kill multiple times is great. Mono-red can also get away with running Roast in the mainboard, which means that as it stands is a significant advantage against Abzan, but very weak against control.
Anyways, I'm kind of rambling on, overall, I prefer the Atarka red version. Control is a matchup that I absolutely Despise, so making that any easier is good. I also find a lot of decks in game one just can't deal with the speed and often they'll sideboard in token hate, then I side out my tokens and make game 2 easier by sideboarding with knowledge of what theyre likely to put in. It's also a deck that I've been playing for longer than the mono-red version, so I'm far more familiar with it, but I believe in most matchups it's stronger than mono-red.
June 5, 2015 8:01 a.m.
joshnothnagle says... #8
I've only recently started playing competitive magic, so take this with a grain of salt.
I played Atarka Red for a SCG open, and I had a blast with it. That being said, I'm not a huge fan of it. It's a solid deck, but after the open I walked away from it. Certain people can make that deck do amazing things,but I'm not one of them, and neither are most of the other people playing it.
I switched to Mono-Red Devo for the Standard PPTQ season and had a lot of fun and some limited success with it. Some of the lines that come together in that deck are insane. The deck I ran was a little different than most since it sacrificed some agro to push the devotion (which let me abuse Lightning Berserker and Dragon Whisperer).
As far as matchups go, RDW gets punished by Eidolon and outclassed by the rest of your creatures.
Abzan losses the race pre SB then it gets a little more even. But, you have evasion and pump going for you. Not to mention, in an Abzan matchup, the text on your Roast actually changes and says "Destroy target Siege Rhino."
Pre SB sucks against control. Like real bad. The theory is that you can get under them to deal a bunch of damage before they can get their threats online, and maybe that's true for an agro build, but I run more mid range. The upside, though, is you destroy them post Side Board. I bring in 2x Chandra, Pyromaster and 2x Outpost Siege to keep digging in my deck.
Both of these decks will run rough shot at an FNM. I think between them, over the past two or three months, I've lost less than five FNM matches.
Good luck at GP Charlotte. I'm debating if I'm going to go or not. If I do, it'll be to play in side events, so maybe I'll see you there.
June 5, 2015 3:08 p.m.
Atarka is far superior against control
atarka is better pre-board in almost every matchup.
With a good number of Roast and Rending Volley, and a couple Hall of Triumph Atarka can easily take on Abzan or control in game 2.
Atarka red- SIDEBOARD OUT Hordeling Outburst AND Dragon Fodder! Black will side in Bile Blight and/or Drown in Sorrow. red will side in Anger of the Gods/ Arc Lightning/Scouring Sands, etc. every deck will side in token hate, so you side out the tokens. Always make them the first card you think of to take out.
Mono-red beats Abzan game one- assuming mainboard Roast, that's all you have to take down a Siege Rhino.
Mono-red is good against jeskai, you have more response to their threats as well as Thunderbreak Regent which means they take a beating when throwing burn at it.
Mono-red forces your opponent to 2 for 1 your creatures, especially Ashcloud Phoenix and sometimes Flamewake Phoenix.
Mono-red gives you the possibility of splashing. I find Treasure Cruise works quite well.
Mono-red gives you the option of more aggression/more control. Also gives the option of taking a devotion strategy.
Mono-red gives you Eidolon of the Great Revel who helps put tons of pressure early game.
Both decks give you Lightning Berserker! He's incredible if you don't want to need to comit too much to the board. Same thing with Zurgo Bellstriker.
All in all, playtest both. I find myself having huge success with Atarka red, although I can see mono-red being better in a lot of matchups. Play to your strengths. I Play well with both, and Atarka red I find more successful because it's just so powerful pre board. I find myself being able to side very effectively, but that means you need to know your meta too. In mine, I find Atarka being better, but regardless of which one you play, you loose to Whip of Erebos...
June 5, 2015 4:31 p.m.
DreadnoughtMTG says... #10
I've got to say, Eidolon is a big two drop. He affects Abzan quite a bit since a good number of thier spells fall into 3 or less.
At the same time, Atarka is straight NASTY. Huge mid game threat in the air. He puts in work against just about every match up.
As already said, Lightning Berserker is great but you get her no matter what. Aside from the big flier though, I feel Atarka just doesn't cut it against Abzan. The 5 damage spread just can't affect the Abzan board significantly enough to shift a poor board state into your favor. Rhinos, Deathdealers, Lions, and Wardens are hefty dudes.
Against Abzan, you just need lots of burn if you're running red. Deal with those fools before they start beating you down.
June 5, 2015 5:28 p.m.
Regardless of wether you're playing Atarka-red or mono-red, against Abzan you side in as much burn as possible. In fact, in mono-red, Anger of the Gods might be a viable option to get rid of Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector for good. And you can get your Monastery Swiftspear out of range while your Thunderbreak Regents go untouched by it.
June 5, 2015 11:36 p.m.
Eas for Eidolon of the Great Revel- being a 2 drop he could be played in both versions. I ran him in Bose sligh with great success, which was basically the old atarka deck.
June 5, 2015 11:47 p.m.
What are your thoughts on mono-red devotions shell, splash blue for Treasure Cruise and Keranos, God of Storms? What red lacks is card advantage and both of these give you that advantage with a bit of extra burn built in on Keranos.
June 5, 2015 11:53 p.m.
I played Mono-Red tonight at FNM and found it to be fairly... inconsistent. I was only playing with 20 lands so when I stalled on one or two lands I was left with Flamewake Phoenix or Thunderbreak Regent in my hand and a board of basically chump blockers. This leads me to believe that the curve in Mono-Red is just awkward. It wasn't much play, but i think i have seen enough to know that Atarka Red is better in my opinion. Also, should the token makers be the first out and does anyone have a list for Atarka Red?
June 5, 2015 11:58 p.m.
I have a list for Atarka red, I can post your name on the list. Also, for mono-red, 20 land isn't enough, you should be running 22.
June 6, 2015 9:39 a.m.
How do you guys feel about Goblin Heelcutter in Atarka? I have just one in my sideboard right now. Anyone have an opinion on this card? Here's my current list Atarka Red: Help with Sideboard!!!.
June 6, 2015 8:39 p.m.
Goblin Heelcutter is very good, personally I don't want more than 1 in my mainboard. What's your local meta like?
June 6, 2015 10:04 p.m.
Locally it's about 70% competitive and 30% casual. I see a lot of rougue top tier decks as well like, 4 Color Graveyard and Sultai Vilanous Wealth. Although, I'm more concerned with GP Charlotte right now than my local meta.
June 7, 2015 11 a.m.
If you're going GP Charlotte, you have a lot to of playtesting to do. Meta there is likely to be mostly Abzan, RDW and esper Dragons. That's the majority of the meta right now. I'd recommend a (slightly suicidal) Anger of the Gods, because that's the only way you can get rid of both Deathmist Raptor and Den Protector. You can still win through burn spells and maybe hold onto a creature before casting it. No deck is going to expect it from something that wipes themselves. If not anger, then Magma Spray. Attack and then exile their stuff. You need to be able to exile the megamorph creatures against Abzan and any other janky versions of megamorph if you happen to run into them. I know it doesn't kill Siege Rhino, but attack, deal some damage to their creatures and then anger to get best value. But the idea is if you expect it, you can re stabilize more quickly than them after a well timed anger. It's also a good card in the mirror match and against Jeskai Ascendancy combo because they need their Sylvan Caryatid to win. It hurts you a lot, but timing it well can win you the game. Test it out at the very least.
TheHroth says... #2
I feel mono-red to be a much better match against Abzan than Atarka red. The fliers just have so much more potential than a wave of goblin tokens that die to Bile Blight and Drown in Sorrow.
Thunderbreak Regent punishes them even if they remove it, and Ashcloud Phoenix demands a 2 for 1 to really get rid of it.
June 4, 2015 11:28 p.m.