Thought-Knot Seer vs Distended Mindbender
Standard Deck Help forum
Posted on July 17, 2016, 8:06 a.m. by shepherdofire
Which is better for discard. I can cast both with ease. Which has the most value?
I would really only play mindbender in a deck that is built around it a bit where the things you are sacrificing are consistent and have a death effect. Otherwise its kind of over priced but in my testing mindbender getting 2 things is very very powerful.
July 17, 2016 9:23 a.m.
well then the real question you're asking is which deck is better, the one with sacrifice based effects where i get the full value out of bender, or a deck that plays with more individually good cards like seer. and in that case i feel like the seer deck would be better.
July 17, 2016 12:51 p.m.
shepherdofire says... #5
July 17, 2016 1:27 p.m.
shepherdofire says... #7
Really? Can you give me your reasoning please. I just want to know why you think that.
July 17, 2016 1:35 p.m.
aholder7 He absolutely wants Mindbender in that deck. Any deck playing black will be playing them. It's insane how good it is.
shepherdofire I commented on your deck.
July 17, 2016 1:53 p.m.
DrFunk27 That is absolutely wrong any emerge card has to be built around a bit and he only has 1 card to sacrifice to mindbender that will actually make it worth while which is matter reshaper. This is assuming he is replacing thought knot for mindbender but you dont want to sacrifice any other creature in the deck otherwise youre only hurting yourself.
July 17, 2016 2:04 p.m.
EmblemMan You can sac Mimic to it, Seer to it and Reshaper to it. That is not playing wrong at all, that's the line of play. Of course what I'm suggesting would change how the deck is played, but mindbender is so strong it's worth it. Have you tested the emerge mechanic yet?
July 17, 2016 2:10 p.m.
basically my reasoning was that its a 7 mana spell that can be reduced in cost incredibly and has a great effect. but to reduce the cost, you probably want to sac something at least 3 cmc or higher (i say that because i feel saccing a 2 drop to make it a 5 drop is too slow, but i guess that i should have mentioned most of my experience is in modern which is faster, so im more apt to shy away from slower option). so looking at his 3+ cmc creatures are all pretty good on their own and you don't always want to sac (except shaper). if shaper was upped to 4 of and maybe another creature added that you wouldnt mind getting rid of. right now theres only 19 creatures, so right now each creature has a lot of value in it in my opinion. so it feels like saccing a creature is a big loss of resources. sorry for not putting more explanation in my post earlier. i was a bit rushed at the time. also i will reiterate that most of my experience is from modern with a much smaller portion in standard, so all of my advice should taken with a grain of salt.
July 17, 2016 2:13 p.m.
DrFunk27 yes I have tested the emerge mechanic and I know for a fact that you need to build around mindbender and he has to consistently come out on turn 4 or MAYBE THE ABSOLUTE LATEST 5 but for actual game breaking value 4 otherwise it will maybe get one card and wont really disrupt your opponent enough especially against aggressive decks and you can only do that with 4 creatures in the deck which is not consistent enough. Saccing a mimic makes there be no point for the mimic the reason you play mimic is to copy what comes in and you wont copy the mindbender and even then this only comes out on 5 which just isnt as good as playing an aggressive reality smasher with your mimic. Yeah you would have to change the deck.....completely which is not the point of his deck he was asking which is better for his deck seer or mindbender and seer is better in taht deck if you want to completely change the deck then mindbender would be better but that is a different deck.
July 17, 2016 2:27 p.m.
EmblemMan So I'm trying to figure out what you are saying, but I think we actually agree. Your argument about Mindbender on T4 or T5 is completely irrelevant because that's the earliest you could cast it anyways....
In his current deck, Seer is the better option. We both agree on that.
However, what I am saying is Standard is going change and that Seer AND Mindbender in the same deck will be fine. You don't have to drop a Mindbender T4 with his deck. He has enough removal to last until 5 if needed, however if he absolutely needs to, he can drop a T4 bender. Ultimately, the optimal line of play would be: T2 Removal T3 Reshaper, T4 Seer, T5 Mindbender, GG.
To conclude. Current deck, Seer is better. When EMN releases, I think it would be worthwhile to change the deck so that Seer and Mindbender can be played together.
July 17, 2016 2:35 p.m. Edited.
DrFunk27 We are kind of saying the same thing but I interpreted the thread as which is better for his deck that he currently has which is seer. Also, no, saying that you need it on 4 or 5 is not irrelevant at all that card, as so much diminishing returns against competitive decks when not cast immediately because people play all of their impactful cards by turn 4 and you wont have important cards to get rid of in their hand. Sure if you are playing against a control deck they will have cards in their hand but they have enough card draw where the discard doesnt matter as much or can just play seasons past to get it back. I am not arguing that seer and mindbender are bad together or separate or whatever but I am saying this will not be a consistent enough mindbender to where he will be impactful enough to warrant playing. Against aggressive decks you need him out turn 4 or youre dead or way too behind and against control decks they will just kill your reshaper or thought knot and youre stuck with an 8 drop in hand I have tested this a lot im not just spewing random crap.
July 17, 2016 2:54 p.m.
I like both, and honestly I think they both want the same deck. They seem like UB control or WB midrange guys to me. The ability to destroy a hand and get decent bodies is just so good. Also, discard 2 and get a 5/5 for possibly BB? Yes please. Both are pretty great options for whatever you want to play.
Here is a question, though. If your opponent Hs hexproof and Thought-Knot Seer dies, they don't get to draw, right? Target opponent, and you can't target them.
July 17, 2016 3:21 p.m.
shepherdofire says... #17
But my opponent cant have hexproof. Not in standard. Not now atleast except for orbs.
July 17, 2016 10:08 p.m.
I think Distended Mindbender a really strong card. In my playtests, however it never hit the opponent's hand very well. It might hit a 2 mana spell but no big spell depending on when you cast it. Of course he is a 5/5 so no big deal, but just wanted to share my experience. I built a mono-black control around it. Let me know your thoughts
Mindbending Emergence
Standard
4 VIEWS
July 19, 2016 11 p.m.
SuicidalSith says... #20
I built a Mardu deck arround this.T1 Duress,T2 transgress or zombie TM or declaration in stone, T3 radiant flames or liliana or reshaper, T4 thoughtknot or Traitor to Geth or languish, T5 Distended + kolaghan's command, T6 obnixilis etch...just sharing my experience, shows alot of promise
mathimus55 says... #2
Why not both? It would be awesome to absolutely tear your opponents hands to shreds and leave behind very relevant bodies. If you had a list it would be easier to discern if you truly had to pick only one.
July 17, 2016 8:34 a.m.