To fetch, or not to fetch?

Standard Deck Help forum

Posted on July 20, 2015, 4:31 p.m. by ducttapedeckbox

As some of you may know, I've been toying around with a quirky thing floating around Standard: UR Counterburn. This deck recently took a states tournament (clicky) and is a blast to pilot as a control player who didn't want to invest in Esper Dragons or play a more traditional UB control.

I've been contemplating the addition of fetchlands in place of Evolving Wilds and some basics to help improve my mana situation. Obtaining them isn't the issue, as I currently have sets of Bloodstained Mire, Polluted Delta, and Flooded Strand. The question is whether or not the life loss will be significant.

I am currently running 26 lands (a number which has been working for me):

Would this be improved by running a 3-3 split of a blue and a red fetch, along with adding Shivan Reefs, all in place of Wilds' and basics?

Gidgetimer says... #2

I think that the life loss isn't worth it. If Scalding Tarn was standard legal I would suggest it in a second, but the off color fetches don't fix without non-basics with a basic land type.

July 20, 2015 4:39 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #3

I just realized that I didn't address Shivan Reef, by all means yes you can tap it for colorless to play any of your spells or pay a life to meet a color requirement.

July 20, 2015 4:42 p.m.

ducttapedeckbox says... #4

Thanks for the input, Gidgetimer.

I'm not overly worried about fixing, rather filling my graveyard to fuel Delve and having an untapped land come in if I need to crack it on my turn.

I'll be borrowing/trading for a set of Reefs from a friend before the next event. What lands should I cut for them? basics?

July 20, 2015 4:44 p.m.

Argy says... #5

I have found 26 lands excellent for control.

Definitely Shivan Reef instead of Evolving Wilds.

I would also run Temple of Epiphany instead of Swiftwater Cliffs.

If it was me I would take out the four Radiant Fountain in place of two more Mountain and Island. That way you won't as easily be colour screwed.

That should speed things up a bit.

July 20, 2015 4:49 p.m.

Gidgetimer says... #6

I would cut the wilds for Reefs. I always forget that delve is a thing. Now that you mention delve I would run 4-2 blue-red and replace the corresponding basics with them. I'm not a fan of running more fetchs than targets since a fetch with all targets out is dead. I'm sorry I forgot about delve I'm not much of a standard player I was just speaking from a general deck construction standpoint and thought you might buy into the myth of thinning.

July 20, 2015 4:51 p.m.

------ says... #7

First, throw out the Evolving Wilds. They have no purpose in a 2-colored deck. Kills your tempo, gives extra mana-advantage to your opponents, no thanks.

And fetches are just for keeping up options. In U/R, currently useless. You can sac your Tarkir fetch for a land that you'll have either way, which does effectively nothing but 1 damage to you and you'll draw enough cards anyways, so you don't really need to thin out your deck on purpose. If you don't run lots of stuff with delve, there is no further reason to use Tarkir fetches in U/R.

My suggestion: wait for Battle for Zendikar, then put a playset of Scalding Tarns in the deck and your mana is fixed.

July 20, 2015 5 p.m.

ducttapedeckbox says... #8

@ Argeaux -- I run the lifegain lands (mostly speaking about Radiant Fountain) because the lifegain has saved my rear end many times. I think the addition of some fetches, as Gidgetimer mentioned, will basically serve as delve-fuel basics.

@ Gidge -- Nah, I know that "theoretically" exists, but isn't practical. I get pretty close to milling myself out some matches, so thinning isn't exactly a concern.

What do you guys think about this for a land base:

July 20, 2015 5:07 p.m.

ducttapedeckbox says... #9

@ ------ - Five heavy delve spells can command the fetches. I think it's worth trying (see above proposal), but we'll see how it goes. I'll be ecstatic (as will everyone else) if we see ZEN fetches reprinted. Tarn is not something I want to get at $60 a pop.

July 20, 2015 5:09 p.m. Edited.

Gidgetimer says... #10

I like your proposed mana base. You might want to try out the scry lands in place of the refuges, but it is the difference between stabilizing against aggro, or filtering options against midrange/control. I think it is entirely dependent on what the make up of your meta is.

July 20, 2015 5:20 p.m.

ducttapedeckbox says... #11

I'm going to try out the proposed changes with the Cliffs, which I know help me stabilize, and then try out the Temples if I can get my hands on them.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. On a unrelated note (with respect to this thread- deck relevant), what do you guys think about Keranos, God of Storms right now? I have yet to see Dromoka's Command pop up, but he doesn't have the instant board presence that Ugin has.

The list that took a States tournament ran 3 Riddle of Lightnings, so is a third worth it? He mentioned that he had a judge called on him due to his opponent questioning its standard legality hah.

July 20, 2015 5:35 p.m.

UpperDeckerTaco says... #12

No Temple of Epiphany's?

July 20, 2015 7:05 p.m.

ducttapedeckbox says... #13

@ UpperDeckerTaco -- I'm currently debating whether the scry or life gain is more useful for this deck. Most decks I'd say scry without a question, but I already scry through nearly my entire library in each game and the life has saved me. Any thoughts?

July 20, 2015 8:24 p.m.

UpperDeckerTaco says... #14

I personally prefer the scry in any deck. You can still run some number of the gain life lands that ETB tapped, but I wouldn't run 4 of them. 4 temples and 2 or 3 (at most) cliffs is good enough. It's just more mana fixing and you have 4 fountains so life shouldn't be too much of an issue. That scry is just too powerful. Who cares if your spells have scry attached or not, this doesn't require a spell.

July 20, 2015 8:32 p.m.

UpperDeckerTaco says... #15

Also, fetches are nice for delve and thinning out your library and mana fixing if you have a scry land that gets either/or. I would say your deck requires you to hit land after land so the thinning dosent help too much. The Wilds as some number should be fine, I don't know if I'd run 4, I would run only 3 because they do cause your basics to ETB tapped. I would personally like to see some number of Shivan Reef because you don't have to pain yourself all the time with it, you have the option to use it as colorless. But that one time you need that mana fix it's there.

July 20, 2015 8:37 p.m.

ducttapedeckbox says... #16

Thanks for your input UpperDeckerTaco. I don't want to go and make huge changes to the land base without testing the changes I'm already going to make. I'm going to try out fetches over Wilds and Reefs in there and see how it goes. Then I'll be able to determine if the fetches are helpful and how badly I need the life gain.

July 20, 2015 10:38 p.m.

This discussion has been closed