75+ card deck, as a defense against Mill? Discuss...
Standard forum
Posted on Feb. 25, 2013, 12:31 a.m. by papastanley
Ok, so I'm a noob, and my first Standard tournament deck was kinda fat, like 75 cards. I note the adherence to the 60 card spec on the most discussed decks, but I also note the MTG rule about being able to have as large a deck as you can comfortably shuffle.
So, as a fan of Dimir (and the Jace deck in Planeswalker 2013), and seeing some Dimir wins in the tournament the other day (not my deck, cause I suck) - is having a bigger deck a valid response to the popularity of Mill now?
Can any of you MTG historian ubergeeks point me to historically successful, 75+ card decks?
Please, no statistical dissertations, I get the math about card draw chances and tightness, but... more cards = flexibility of endgame = harder to combat with sideboard? No flames please, be nice to the noob...
Discuss :-)
If you want to REALLY want to screw with mill, build a deck around Battle of Wits .
February 25, 2013 12:45 a.m.
The only successful 75+ card decks are Battle of Wits decks. One placed in the top 8 of a GP many eons ago, if I remember correctly. So that's an option.
If you don't want to get milled, just have a good sideboard with Psychic Spiral , Elixir of Immortality , or Witchbane Orb . There's no point in sacrificing statistical consistency to make it so one archetype can kill you one turn slower while all the others can now kill you three turns faster.
meecht's analogy is pretty good at explaining this in layman's terms.
February 25, 2013 12:50 a.m.
CardMinnow says... #5
Welcome to Magic, and (I'm assuming) TappedOut, its a nice community here, not to many trolls, mostly just people that legitimately want to help. On to your question, it's not a bad idea against mill, the main issue is that in Magic, a lot of good ideas don't translate to real life well, too much randomness in the game. The real key to beating mill is to kill them faster than they can kill you, remember, by choosing mill they have given you 60 "life", but they still only have 20.Like Jimhawk said, running Elixir of Immortality is really your best bet against mill, make them kill you twice, maybe 3 times, and almost any deck will be able to kill them first. Psychic Spiral is a lot of fun if you're in blue, nothing like making them work for you.
@meechtDoesn't Battle of Wits have a really hard time against mill? Seems like a bad matchup.
February 25, 2013 2:04 a.m.
Timekeeper says... #6
I agree with the above commenters and add that their statements are especially true in the fact that many mill decks will be running Duskmantle Guildmage . The guildmage lets them take their mill cards, which are generally quite effective at milling (just look the old ravnica card, Glimpse the Unthinkable ), and turn them into direct damage burn. (One especially popular card pair is Duskmantle Guildmage with Jace, Memory Adept 's zero ability to mill ten cards.) In those scenarios, having a larger deck will not help you at all.
February 25, 2013 3:14 a.m.
KrazyCaley says... #7
Other posters are seconded. I know it's dull and you hear it everywhere, but tight, reliable draws are important!
February 25, 2013 6 a.m.
papastanley says... #8
Thanks guys, guess I'll save my crazy options fat deck for Casual ;-)
February 25, 2013 6:34 a.m.
gheridarigaaz says... #9
I guess it's worth a go if you're building a Battle of Wits deck but that really isn't all that viable...
February 25, 2013 8:34 a.m.
CardMinnow, a Battle of Wits deck might actually be semi-effective against mill simply because you could cause your opponent to mill themselves out over time. Also, the deck will typically involve some way to recycle the graveyard because you have to do SOMETHING with the 240+ cards needed, so why not?
February 25, 2013 8:42 a.m.
gheridarigaaz says... #11
Then theres the alternative... run Snapcaster Mage s and a single Psychic Spiral to deal with it, or just run some non-situational flashback spells to turn their strategy against them...
February 25, 2013 1:29 p.m.
What I find is a great troll card is using Worldspine Wurm just so I can give myself that one turn to attack with all of my people and see if I can win by bum rushing or not.
February 25, 2013 4:24 p.m.
Laboratory Maniac means you win the game if they mill you as well.
February 25, 2013 7:04 p.m.
Elixir of Immortality , Psychic Spiral , Witchbane Orb all stop mill. No need to ruin your decks consistency when you could just side in answers.
February 25, 2013 8:29 p.m.
CardMinnow says... #15
You can even main a Elixir or 2 if your meta is heavy on mill, life gain doesn't hurt against aggro either.
February 26, 2013 12:55 a.m.
If you have enough control to handle agro till you get elixir. THen yes elixir stalls ya a turn. In my experience elixir hard saves my enemy from my deck :D.
meecht says... #2
Unless your meta is primarily mill, running over 60 cards is ill-advised. You're better off including some kind of mill protection in the sideboard.
More cards may equal more flexibility overall, but you would be less likely to draw the card(s) you need when you need them. Think of it as a song playlist set to shuffle: the song you want is there, but it could take a lot of skipping to find it.
February 25, 2013 12:44 a.m.