Abusing Athreos and Dictate of Erebos
Standard forum
Posted on May 8, 2014, 9:35 a.m. by rochdalekilla9
So I thought of a combo that may be nice to explore for a B/W/R deck. You put out High Priest of Penance while you have Athreos, God of Passage and Dictate of Erebos . Since High Priest of Penance just says whenever damage is dealt to him, you could just Lightning Strike him, triggering his ability to exile an opponents nonland permanent while also triggering Dictate of Erebos , forcing your opponent to sacrifice a creature PLUS either take 3 damage from Athreos, God of Passage or High Priest of Penance goes back to your hand. How feasible do you think this is? Would it work in standard or would it be too slow?
rochdalekilla9 says... #4
The reasoning behind why I put it this way is because I have noticed when I play with High Priest of Penance , no one wants to block him and then they only attack with creatures with flying. So a way to get around that is killing him on your own, triggering all of those effects.
May 8, 2014 9:43 a.m.
rochdalekilla9 says... #5
My apologies...I meant to say destroy opponents nonland permanent
May 8, 2014 9:43 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #6
That piece of removal would better be spent on that flyer. Therefor not spending two of your cards on one of theirs, aka the two-for-one, I know it seems unlikely but they will block it eventually, make it a threat by bestowing Eidolon of Countless Battles on it forcing them to block it at a certain point.
May 8, 2014 9:46 a.m.
rochdalekilla9 says... #7
I guess what I was thinking about is it's more than a two-for-one. Yes, I'd be wasting a lightning strike and killing my creature. But killing the creature allows for me to destroy a nonland permanent of theirs, plus they have to sacrifice a creature because of Dictate of Erebos , PLUS either take 3 life or allow me to keep my Priest, who I would probably cast again the same turn. So I look at it as a two-for-three, unless I'm totally bonkers, which could be true as well. lol
May 8, 2014 10:05 a.m.
Does the High Priest of Penance and Dictate of Erebos triggers go on the stack at the same time? If you can order them so that you destroy a permanent before they sac a creature then this works...
It really comes down to which is done first, add things to the stack, or check state based effects?
If triggers are added to the stack before state-based effects are checked then not it's not quite as good as you think.
In your Example:
- You Lightning Strike
your own High Priest of Penance
.
- Trigger goes on the Stack, and you chose a target.
- Before the ability resolves, your High Priest of Penance
dies.
- Dictate of Erebos
triggers, and goes on the stack.
- Dictate of Erebos
resolves, and opponent sacrifices a creature... since he knows what you've targeted, if it was a creature, he will sacrifice that creature.
- High Priest of Penance
triggered ability resolves, the creature you've target is no longer in play, so it fizzles.
So if this is the case, it only works if the Permanent you want to get rid of with High Priest of Penance is a non-creature permanent... but I believe in most cases, you would prefer to get rid of a creature.
Perhaps someone can clarify for me.
If a triggered ability triggers during the resolution of another spell or ability, do state based effects get checked before or after triggered ability is put on the stack?
May 8, 2014 10:08 a.m.
rochdalekilla9 says... #9
Yes, clarification on that would be great, because if what you say is true, then it is not as good as I originally thought...
May 8, 2014 10:16 a.m.
Did some research.
603.3. Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack as an object thats not a card the next time a player would receive priority. See rule 116, Timing and Priority. The ability becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. It remains on the stack until its countered, it resolves, a rule causes it to be removed from the stack, or an effect moves it elsewhere.
116.5. Each time a player would get priority, the game first performs all applicable state-based actions as a single event (see rule 704, State-Based Actions), then repeats this process until no state-based actions are performed. Then triggered abilities are put on the stack (see rule 603, Handling Triggered Abilities). These steps repeat in order until no further state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the player who would have received priority does so.
So, state based effects are checked before players add triggered abilities to the stack.... You would be able to order the abilities of Dictate of Erebos and High Priest of Penance in a way that is most beneficial to you.
May 8, 2014 10:29 a.m.
rochdalekilla9 says... #11
Awesome. Thank you Rayenous for clarifying. So there is a benefit to what I said, even if it is just situational. Might be something I will try
May 8, 2014 10:37 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #12
The triggered ability from High Priest of Penance would go on the stack during the combat step, before state based actions are checked, allowing you to choose a non land permanent. Then once state based actions are checked the High Priest would die, triggering Dictate of Erebos and Athreos, God of Passage , allowing you to order those triggers. But all three triggers will be on the stack at the same time.
May 8, 2014 10:37 a.m.
As you can see from the rulings I've posted, that is not correct. Although High Priest of Penance triggers when the damage is dealt, it will not go on the stack until after state based effects are checked. As such, all 3 triggers can be put on the stack in any order.
May 8, 2014 10:44 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #14
You can hold priority to stack your triggers so that this would work. States are only checked when priority is passed, according to your rulings.
May 8, 2014 11:35 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #15
Just run Pharika's Cure so you don't have to splash another color.
May 8, 2014 1:18 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #17
It may be worth putting red in anyway if you want this human heavy build to run Xathrid Necromancer and say...Purphoros, God of the Forge .
May 8, 2014 5:21 p.m.
hungerwolf says... #18
It would probably just be easier to pump him a little so you can deal damage without having to worry about recursion.
blackmarker90 says... #2
It would work, but why waste a strike on the priest instead of blocking or attacking.
May 8, 2014 9:40 a.m.