Abzan wins PT Battle for Zendikar
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 18, 2015, 5:25 p.m. by KillDatBUG
Piloted by Kazuyuki Takimura. Top 8 lists are here.
What do you guys think about this PT, the new Standard format, and moving forward in the future?
fluffybunnypants says... #3
"New" format. Honestly, it shows the lack of impact of BfZ on constructed formats when the two decks that battled it out for the PT Khans finals show up in the PT BfZ finals, albeit slightly different.
October 18, 2015 5:27 p.m.
I'm quite amazed to see, that there is no Landfall decks. There is no at the top 8. I also thought, that Undergrowth Champion would be good....
The only card from BFZ that is really played is Gideon. Is BFZ really that weak, or is the Khans block just too strong?
October 18, 2015 5:43 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #6
@The_Raven It's a bit of both. There aren't too many inherently powerful cards in BfZ that are also cheap to cast, and Khans just had so much value. There isn't any incentive to play with the BfZ cards other than for the utility and great manabases.
October 18, 2015 5:51 p.m.
McSleuthburger says... #7
I was rooting for Tamada
Also kinda sad that other than Gideon there were no real big cards from BfZ
Also also is Jace, Vryn's Prodigy going higher?
October 18, 2015 6:21 p.m.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy was already going up.
Now it's gonna hit the freaking roof.
October 18, 2015 6:42 p.m.
I kind of got the feeling that everyone was playing it a bit safe.
There wasn't much variety in the decks.
October 18, 2015 6:44 p.m.
Personally, I've been avidly trying to brew out something cool with the new cards against the decks played at the pro tour and it just feels futile.
Not having interaction against things like baby Jace, Mantis Rider, Hangarback Walker, etc leave you wide open to just being completely out-done in the early game. The same can be true versus cards like Anafenza, the Foremost and Siege Rhino from Abzan decks, albeit about a turn later than the others mentioned.
Not having access to ways to deal with tokens or super aggro decks (i.e. Radiant Flames) means you almost certainly will find yourself dying to a flurry of spells combined with Jeskai Ascendancy. If not, you're likely to find Gideon, Ally of Zendikar rearing up the pack to either provide chump blockers or an emblem to finish you off just the same.
You have to have access to either Dispel or other instant-speed ways to not lose repeatedly to the Atarka red aggro(combo) decks. They are basically impossible to race otherwise, and even board wiping repeatedly can still result in you dying to what you thought would be an empty board.
Now, what if you try to go over the top of these strategies? Good luck. The biggest thing BFZ did for these decks is give them easy access to Crackling Doom. Doom spells...doom...for any strategy trying to ramp heavily into a well-protected threat such as Sagu Mauler or Ulamog. Ugin seems like a more reasonable card to ramp into, but in most cases you'll have found yourself dead against the above aggro decks before you can cast him.
The only place where this isn't truly the case is if you play Esper control. You get access to board wipes, early game interaction, Dispel, and you don't have to waste turns or fuel ramping in order to actually get to play Ugin. Unfortunately, Esper control isn't really that new or exciting of a deck. Ob Nixilis is a good new card for the deck, but really youre just looking at the same general deck with more flexibility in card choices due to, again, the BFZ lands.
The choices seem to come down to the following:
Play Jace. There are many ways that decks can answer this card, but it is a MUST answer, and you are lucky enough to have access to Ojutai's Command or Kolaghan's Command to bring him back.
Answer Jace, then quickly kill them with something along the lines of Atarka Red.
Answer Jace, then quickly obtain board presence with cards like Anafenza, the Foremost and Siege Rhino so that the opponent can't catch their footing.
Play Jace, but be prepared for him to die and instead go over the top of the above strategies using Control elements in some sort of a shell like Esper.
Answer Jace, and then grind out the opponent's removal options using something like the Megamorph combo (Den Protector + Deathmist Raptor).
I wish things felt differently to me, but this honestly feels like what it boils down to at the moment. The hype is real. Jace is a hard card to beat and it feels like all the decks need to fall under "play it" or "answer it".
October 18, 2015 7:32 p.m.
pumpkinwavy says... #11
Your options:
-play Siege Rhino
-play Monastery Swiftspear
-play Mantis Rider
-play Deathmist Raptor
-lose
I pick Mantis Rider!
October 18, 2015 11:21 p.m.
The jeskai decks were better imo. Owen had 2 terrible games, Tamada played flawlessly and took out Finkel in the jeskai vs dark jeskai match... Then he kept a 0 land hand and gave a free game away in the final when he was up 2-1 :/ I think he scryed without thinking and realized he had to keep the hand. Nothing really new from BFZ but I think Jeskai and Esper are overall better than abzan now even if it didn't turn out that way in 1 event. So much for those big hyped Eldrazi though.
October 18, 2015 11:54 p.m.
Why didn't more decks run Ruinous Path to answer Gideon, Ally of Zendikar?
The most common play with Gideon seemed to be to +0 him on his first turn and get out a 2/2 Knight Ally.
If you kill him on the next turn that doesn't get much value from him.
I know Ruinous Path is Sorcery speed, so it is strictly worse than Hero's Downfall. However people are still choosing Treasure Cruise over Dig Through Time, so some Sorceries are viable.
October 19, 2015 8:23 a.m.
Because there is Crackling Doom to do the same when Gideon attacks next turn, at instant speed. I am not really feeling that everyone commenting here really understands how the format has evolved over the past year.
Even if colors are the same, decklist and strategy are vastly different, because the answers are different. In world without Lightning Strike, Mantis Rider is king.
Also, given the fact 1/3 of the Pro Tour is limited, the top 8 hardly tells the whole story.
There is the aristocrats deck that stayed just outside of the top 8. There is the BG tokens that was impressive on camera and Atarka Red has been strong all weekend. Esper control was solid, as well as several other decks performed well.
tl;dr: Even after the pro Tour, standard does not feel "solved". The best deck is yet to be found, keep brewing!
October 19, 2015 8:33 a.m.
There are two different threads talking about the Pro Tour at the moment, which is part of the problem. UB Aristocrats was mentioned in the other one.
I saw RG Tokens. Didn't know there was a BG version as well.
Crackling Doom doesn't do anything to Gideon if he never uses his +1/+1 ability.
I agree with you and hope that people keep brewing.
October 19, 2015 8:57 a.m.
Given that Draconic Roar is the closest the format has to lightning strike, I would think a dragon deck is the next feasible step. Seeing as silkwrap also happens to be a good removal spell for other cards like jace and Hangarback Walker, I'd say that color combo should either be RW dragons (unlikely), Naya or mardu dragons. Jeskai dragons could maybe be another option.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #2
Sorta seems that nothing much has changed really. Manabases got better, there's a couple decent eldrazi decks, but Siege Rhino > format, as always. The format just got more expensive is all.
October 18, 2015 5:27 p.m. Edited.