Aggro losing speed?
Standard forum
Posted on Sept. 20, 2013, 11:57 a.m. by harrydemon117
Has anyone else noticed that there haven't been as many "hasty" creatures printed in theros? Sure there are a few, but nothing like it was before.
Examples of things leaving that make me happy:
harrydemon117 says... #3
Yes it's true that he will give them fits, however Doom Blade , Devour Flesh , and other removal are still available :)
I'm just going on what Wizards said as they wanted to slow the format down. It seems that there wasn't as many "low cmc haste" creatures printed as there have been in the past
September 20, 2013 12:04 p.m.
Schuesseled a good control player will have either burn or Doom Blade /Hero's Downfall ready for such things. the only thing it makes cry is ... a bad control player?
September 20, 2013 12:04 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #5
Or they'll have Thoughtseize to take care of the nasty hydra before it even hits the table.
September 20, 2013 12:06 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #6
At least half of a control decks removal, isn't technically removal. Anyway, surely they'll be using up their kill spells, and red can't burn a 6/6.
September 20, 2013 12:06 p.m.
Schuesseled, 2 Lightning Strike will do it just fine and probably add to their creature count at the same time, then haste attack you. All I'm saying Mistcutter Hydra isn't that big of a deal or issue for control as you stated.
September 20, 2013 12:10 p.m.
Well push, gufymike, I'd preyed how to it before it is a thrag I the board and just Dissolve , setting me up to draw I to my next answer with scry. Mistcutter won't be shutting control off by itself
September 20, 2013 12:10 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #9
So you are giving yourself card disadvantage now? I'll just play another Mistcutter Hydra and follow up with a Kalonian Hydra . Your move.
September 20, 2013 12:13 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #10
Anywho, there's still lot's of fast aggro cards:
Dreg Mangler is one of my favourites for example.
September 20, 2013 12:16 p.m.
Schuesseled Chained to the Rocks ... and another token attack. What you just lost thanks to Assemble the Legion and purphorus? Really, green isn't that strong or scary.
September 20, 2013 12:21 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #12
Green is plenty scary, just not on its own, although I can see it being a pain in the ass.
R/G aggro is in a strong, strong position to do well. It probably won't run both Kalonian Hydra and Mistcutter Hydra at the same time, more likely one will exist in the deck along with the new version of thundermaw. If I had to run it you be looking at pumpable weenies: Foundry Street Denizen , Rakdos Cackler to start, a couple battalion creatures: Firefist Striker and Legion Loyalist , an enabler: Burning-Tree Emissary and some mad bloodrush: Pyrewild Shaman and Ghor-Clan Rampager . There would also be Xenagos, The Reveler and Domri Rade for mid to late game to get a few fatties into play if need be.
September 20, 2013 12:36 p.m.
I can see r/g being scary strong also, I've had similar thoughts. though I would run Stormbreath Dragon over either hydra. But this is not my style of play (lots of creatures, I hate lots of creatures... but this is a topic for another day), that is why I wouldn't play it. But Schuesseled made a comment about how Mistcutter Hydra is something that makes control players cry, which is not even remotely the case.
September 20, 2013 12:40 p.m.
Wait...I counter a creature, get to scry and set up my next draw, and I have disadvantaged myself how? You lost a creature and I get to pick my next draw...that's card for card and I have the advantage of knowing my next move before you finish your turn
September 20, 2013 1:24 p.m.
For Mistcutter Hydra
control has answers other then what's been said: 1. Ratchet Bomb
out of the sideboard is best. 2. wraths or complementing spot removal: Supreme Verdict
, Mizzium Mortars
, Warleader's Helix
, Anger of the Gods
, and overloaded Cyclonic Rift
. Of course with some of these, timing will be an issue. But there are always answers, it's just a bit harder. Anyway, what were we talking about?
September 20, 2013 1:27 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #16
I like the fact that mistcutter can't be countered, but protblue seems kind of weak. It's not like we're going to run into Geist of Saint Traft in standard anymore.
September 20, 2013 1:47 p.m.
Prot blue is best for negating Azorius Charm anyway. It's never really been about being able to get past blue creatures.
To answer the original question, there's no doubt that aggro is going to be a little slower now, and it's not just because of the rotation of a lot of hasty creatures. The lands have changed for the slower as well. In fairness, the last few weeks of ISD/RTR Standard have had some incredibly fast aggro decks (maybe since BTE came out, in fact), and that's a big part of the reason we've seen so little control.
It's getting slower, and that's by design.
September 20, 2013 1:55 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #18
Oh I wasn't talking about a monogreen deck, Golgari Charm will deal with your enchantments, and god isn't anything to worry about without some followers.
Anyway, i do like the interaction between those two cards you mentioned, I've recently purchased two of those bad boy gods for this deck: Assemble the Legion .
I'm perfectly aware that Mistcutter Hydra can be dealt with, but it's going to be a head ache because it's harder to deal with.
September 20, 2013 2:16 p.m.
Ok, now I see...I forgot Mistcutter is not counterable. My bad...log day. Ok, the I default t the plethora of non-blue removal, but I up contede the point that he will be an annoyance to control decks running blue
I also appologize for any typos I missed: iOS 7 is garbage
September 20, 2013 2:38 p.m.
Now, on topic. Aggro is losing speed...netessarb evil wit. The lack of untapped duals and mana fixes for the slower midrange and control decks. You can have a army of 1, 2, and 3 drop with haste and expect anyone to not run aggro in this type of environment.
September 20, 2013 2:40 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #21
Wow, I leave my forum for a few hours and it got WAY off topic lol.
all I meant was that in previous formats it seemed like they printed more creatures with haste or who could grant haste. This was to balance everything for the midrange/control players since they were taking a big beating due to the mana fixing being slower.
September 20, 2013 3:21 p.m.
Actually, I think because Wizards are trying to slow the format down it means there is an opportunity for a good player to find that fast aggro deck and dominate. When everyone else is thinking slow, finding the fast solution could be devastating (at least until everyone jumps on board). Naya Blitz was that way when it first became a thing. These things are always in flux.
and as someone who has run control for the past 6 months, I'll take a Pro blue hydra over a Cavern of Souls any day of the week.
September 20, 2013 3:26 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #23
Have I mentioned how good Warrior's Lesson is?
September 20, 2013 4:57 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #24
Also, Firedrinker Satyr will probably be in every red aggro deck.
September 20, 2013 4:59 p.m.
10vernothin says... #25
I guess no one loves a good Minotaur Skullcleaver :
turn 1 cacklerturn 2 burning tree, gorehouse (2 damage)turn 3 skullcleaver (9 damage + 2 per burning tree) (total 11 damage + 2 per burning tree)
that's alot of damage within 3 turns (before the wrath comes down), even if you didn't have any burning trees. Another few skullcleavers/ash zealots after a verdict and some lightning strikes and the game could end before that sphinx can even come down.
I'd say mono-colour aggro is stronger now that multi-colour control slowed down b/c of lack of lands
September 20, 2013 5:38 p.m.
10vernothin, that is a bunch of damage, however, there is a T3 Wrath that handles all of that available to control players right now. Anger of the Gods hits T3 before your biggest shenanigan has a chance to happen if you are facing Izzet or American...of course, the control player needs to be on the draw, so there are holes on both sides. A good control player will have equal or greater shenanigans also....I am assuming at least 1 of those creatures ran into an Essence Scatter , possible Turn , Shock , Lightning Strike , or Magma Jet also handles this scenario. However, outside of the unlucky control draw, I think this combo of yours would fair very well against some other decks...especially midrange. Also, that Minotaur pairs well with Ogre Battledriver and If I go red tonight at Prerelease I will be hoping to draft this guy because I see him being very useful in a slower limited environment.
September 21, 2013 10:36 a.m.
all my losses at prerelease yesterdy evening where against red i might add
September 21, 2013 1:24 p.m.
It seems to me, at least from the Theros spoiler, that if anyone happens to draft Perphorus, and gets him on the board, it's game over. Not many limited decks can prepare to deal with that.
Schuesseled says... #2
Mistcutter Hydra making control players cry, priceless.
September 20, 2013 12:01 p.m.