Am I missing something about Outpost Siege?
Standard forum
Posted on April 20, 2015, 3:11 p.m. by doctorsmegma
Alright so I'm currently in a transition phase from Mardu to R/B since the release of DTK. I don't think that my deck really accomodates Outpost Siege the way that Mardu tended to do and here is why.
1) With Mardu pre-DTK, Outpost Siege significantly helped with both of it's abilities. The Khans ability allowed for (basically) an extra draw and if you almost had your oppenent beat, the Dragons ability complimented my Hordeling Outburst Goblin Rabblemaster and Bloodsoaked Champion significantly. It doesn't have this sort of a benefit anymore.
80% of the time I now draw Outpost Siege, I find it to be in the way, slow and more of an intereference to my plan opposed to a benefit. Sure having the extra draw every turn can make or break the game, but by the time it's relevant to play, your opponent already has creatures, health has been lost and if you're currently at a disadvantage, wasting a turn to play Outpost Siege can essentially lose you the game.
Maybe I'm missing something in my newly constructed deck, but Outpost Siege is no longer relevant to my style of play. The problem is that people advise me to use Outpost Siege and sometimes, I've been told to possible run a 3rd.
Now that I've eliminated Hordeling Outburst for Dragon Fodder the Dragon ability isn't as good (the reason for the replacement is my deck is not as sacrifical as Mardu is and it also allows me to play Dragon Fodder a turn before summoning my Goblin Rabblemaster)
So tonight I will be playing a local Standard competition and I've cut Outpost Siege from my entire setup, including the sideboard. I've replaced with with 2x Foul-Tongue Invocation because a) my deck lacks any lifegain and b) it will potentially be much more of a benefit rather than a hindrance in comparison to Outpost Siege. Not to mention I've lost my beloved Crackling Doom due to my deck's transformation.
This is just an analysis of my personal deck, I know. But in almost any of the relevant standard decks right now, I don't see Outpost Siege as a relevant card anymore in most. Except for maybe Jeskai Tokens.
Am I missing something or am I right to cut Outpost Siege from the line up?
canterlotguardian says... #3
Not really. It says "leaves the battlefield" not "dies". So the Dragons portion would still trigger even after an Anger of the Gods.
April 20, 2015 3:21 p.m.
Most decks typically have Outpost Siege in the sideboard to name Khans for the control matchup. Most control decks don't have a way of dealing with enchantments which allows Siege to stick around for a long time and the card advantage can be vital to your success.
There will be times when you really need to draw gas. Without Siege you could draw a land. With Siege the land will be exiled and you'll draw the card after it.
Also, FYI, Anger of the Gods does NOT stop Dragons-Siege from dealing damage. Reread it. The cards only says "leaves the battlefield," which means exile, bouncing, and death all trigger it.
April 20, 2015 3:35 p.m.
I mean, the meta has sped up, so that's something to consider. However, there was a reason R/W Aggro ran four outpost siege, and that reason was that you absolutely always wanted it on turn four. And multiples weren't bad at all. I know the feeling of "i think i'm in a winning position, I don't want to take a turn off to play this and allow my opponent to stabilize". However, the reality is that the removal is really good right now, so even if you don't take that turn off to play siege, there's a very good chance they wipe your board position and stabilize anyway. Since that's the case, taking the turn off to play siege is a smart move.
I mean, sometimes your opponent just has 10-12 points of burn in their hand, and you've allowed their creatures to hit you like 2-3 times. Nothing you can do at that point if you don't have life gain or counter spells. But some bad experiences don't mean that the card's gotten worse.
I personally think that the W/R aggro deck is still very, very good, despite the meta speeding up a bit. It's just that people are having fun with other decks since the format's so open ended right now. Against your intuition, i'd advice you sticking in the full playset of Outpost Siege, sticking it turn four in a few games, and really just play with it more. I think you'll find it's still just as good as it was.
April 20, 2015 3:41 p.m.
MangoPunch says... #6
OP: I don't understand how you can think Outpost Siege is too slow, but are running Liliana Vess which is waaaayyyyy slower, less immediately impactful and easier to remove... I'm not saying that outpost siege is or isn't good in your deck, I am just very confused by your reasoning given what you are choosing to play.
April 20, 2015 3:58 p.m.
doctorsmegma says... #7
Liliana Vess will probably be sideboarded out but I have her in there because the overall "goal" of the deck is to get my opponent empty handed and take control of the board. By the time she comes out, I'm hoping to have played Duress and Kolaghan's Command at least once and they'd probably be down to about 3-4 cards anyway. Putting her out, forcing my opponent to discard and then I pursue to destroy.
My deck is more about waiting for the right time to make my move from control to aggressive. Liliana's abilities outweigh her slower pace for what I'm trying to do. That's why I'm only running 1.
I'm not trying to be aggro and just like Kyurri said, I can see the benefits of a deck that is purely aggro using Outpost siege much more to their advantage. My overall question was more aimed towards they style of Kolaghan clan I'm playing.
And thanks for clearing up the Anger of the Gods mistake I made.
April 20, 2015 4:17 p.m.
Yea I shoulda specified, i didn't actually check out your deck before commenting, I just wanted to point out that Outpost Siege, by itself, is still a very good card. It just requires you to be playing a specific type of deck. OP's deck might not be.
doctorsmegma says... #2
Oh an as an addition to my point that I left out, Anger of the Gods is one of the more popular board wipes, making the Dragons ability even more useless due to the exile effect.
April 20, 2015 3:13 p.m.