Are people dumb or something?
Standard forum
Posted on March 19, 2014, 2:48 p.m. by SpaderAce
Why aren't the top lists for azorius control running Jace, Memory Adept in the sideboard? I find that very odd....
A lot of U/W decks ran it a couple months ago to bring in against control. But now must control decks run an Elixir of Immortality , at least sideboarded, so Memory Adept isn't such a great choice anymore. I still run him, but I'm in the minority.
March 19, 2014 3:01 p.m.
Not only that, but how does Jace, Memory Adept win the game? Including mill reduces the number of cards that can deal damage. Chances are they Hero's Downfall or counter your Jace, and then you've spent 5 mana investing in something which basically adds nothing to your win con
March 19, 2014 3:01 p.m.
most control are only running one Elixir of Immortality so it doesn't really negate anything because your just as likely to mill it the first time you use his 0 ability as they are to draw it before he hits the board. Then once he does hit the board the odds that they hit that one card in between the 10 cards your milling plus any they're drawing is very, very low. Not impossible, but improbable enough that you'd be a fool to completely ignore the idea of using Jace, Memory Adept because of one copy of Elixir of Immortality
March 19, 2014 3:04 p.m.
Bestach do you play control? The other two answers are right on the money, but yours is off base. People have used him, milling 10 is no joke against control and if they counter it, better him than my Sphinx's Revelation or what not. This is in this standard, before Elixir of Immortality was included in the majority of decks.
March 19, 2014 3:06 p.m.
Yeah, his mill is absolutely a threat and a win con. 10 cards per turn is huge, and requires that he be immediately dealt with.
March 19, 2014 3:11 p.m.
abenz419 it's not just the elixir, but also Blood Baron of Vizkopa is a better sideboard card most of the time, more relevant match ups..
March 19, 2014 3:16 p.m.
@gufymike don't get me wrong I'm not saying he should be a must in all sideboards or anything like that. I just saw that one guy completely dismissing him because of elixir and it just didn't make any sense. I mean yes we know what elixir does, but it's not a 4 of, especially in control. So just because they have one copy of elixir in their mainboard, that should not be enough of a reason to completely dismiss running Jace, Memory Adept in your sideboard. Especially if your local meta contains lots of a control players and you expect to see it in a couple rounds every week at FNM.
March 19, 2014 3:51 p.m.
I wasn't dismissing him purely because of Elixir. Its a combination of the fact that control can remove him AND they have Elixirs. Also, your argument about the slim chances of drawing the Elixir is slightly misleading. We're talking about control here, specifically Azorius, which always runs a playset of Sphinx's Revelation , and usually a few other draw sources like Jace, Architect of Thought . This greatly increases their chances of drawing it. If they didn't have a chance of drawing it, they wouldn't bother running it as a 1 of to begin with.
March 19, 2014 3:59 p.m.
best feeling I had was a mid-game Thoughtseize against u/w control and hitting thier Elixir of Immortality they were holding on to.
March 19, 2014 4:48 p.m.
I do play control, and I strongly disagree with you. If you look at the current meta, both MBD and Esper (which is a lot less common now, I know) play Hero's Downfall , as well as Detention Sphere in U/W, the occasional Cyclonic Rift + Negate , not to mention that MTG Top8 has 73% of the meta as Aggro. Not only do most of the decks in the format have outs to Jace, most of them also don't care about mill most of the time. For most walkers this isn't true, because they immediately add to your main wincon anyway (Domri/Jace AoT drawing cards, Xenagos making creatures/adding mana, etc), so they still have achieved something if they are killed.
But the reason you suggest adding Jace is to add an alt wincon (mill). However, most of the time Jace is your only relevant method of milling them out. If Jace gets answered, which is likely considering how much of a threat he can be, you've effectively spent 5 mana, SB slots, and removed cards from your MB to get "Mill 10." In some situations that might be what you want (Like if you're aiming to win by milling with Elixir), but there are better sideboard cards which add more to you surviving, and eventually winning. There are better SB cards, which offer more versatility, add more to your deck and aren't weak against key cards in the decks you want them against.
March 19, 2014 5:45 p.m.
I guess we'll just have to disagree then. I also play control, and I actually run Memory Adept main board. I run no other mill related cards, and I've managed to mill opponents out quite frequently. It serves as an excellent alternate win con.
Additionally, you said he doesn't add to your main win con. That's just not true. He can, in some ways, be an even more effective draw spell than Jace, Architect of Thought . Yes he doesn't dig, but his draw ability is a +1 rather than a -2, which is huge in terms of his longevity on the board. He can stick longer and draw you more cards.
I'm not entirely sure what your point about all the aggro decks in the meta was meant to prove? That control should just give up? Any current control deck wants to Supreme Verdict on t4 almost every game, especially against aggro. So Jace, Memory Adept is actually perfect in that regards, coming down t5 on to an empty board right after a verdict. An aggro deck will topdecking, and its the perfect place to control the board and mill them out.
March 19, 2014 6:27 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #14
mtgtop8.com is not very accurate for determining the meta. It groups Midrange decks with Aggro and pulls from MTGO mostly which has a different meta than paper magic due to differences in card availability and price.
March 19, 2014 6:40 p.m.
All I meant was there are a lot of aggressive decks, which have no problem killing PWs
March 19, 2014 8:04 p.m.
They do if the board's been wiped and they're top decking.
March 19, 2014 8:18 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #17
The fact that people are talking on this thread basically refutes the title :)
I could see it either way. It's not like you're going to remove AoT in mirror matchups, so putting another Jace in the deck risks getting too many of them and having them sit in your hand. However, against other Azorius, their only answers to planeswalkers are counterspells, Detention Sphere , and a one-of Fated Retribution , so having 8 of them in your deck will help to make one stick.
As someone who plays home brews and thrives on the element of surprise, I say go for it. If pros aren't playing it, your LGS opponents will be less likely to anticipate it. Heck, they may even side out their Elixers since the life gain is less relevant and they won't expect a mill strategy.
March 19, 2014 9:36 p.m.
Memory adept as a 1-of can be a power house, just because they Can answer him, doesn't mean they will, all it takes is a few well timed counter spells and next thing you know he's winning the game, single handedly.
March 19, 2014 9:40 p.m.
theinfernumflame says... #19
As far as other archetypes, I run it as a sideboard card against control in my RUG midrange deck. Usually against control, I'll board into 2 Memory Adepts (replacing 2 main deck Jace, Architect of Thought ), along with 2 AEtherling and 4 Counterflux . Between Jace, Aetherling, and Polukranos, World Eater and Stormbreath Dragon , the idea is to overwhelm whatever the control deck tries to do while holding up Counterflux to swat down their own win cons.
That said, the only time I had a Jace, Memory Adept in hand (against Esper Control), it got Thoughtseize d away, so I don't know if it's actually any good other than that it diversifies my deck's threats (and presents an alternate angle of attack). It might just be right to drop the Jaces altogether and run 4 AEtherling . On the upside, the deck has made a habit of beating control decks with this sideboard plan.
March 19, 2014 9:48 p.m.
That's a lot of responses, haha. And I meant purely for the control matchup, or even maze's end (which seems to be growing, idk). Against control, if you don't run any creatures and they just so happen to be playing esper, they'll probably sideboard it out (depending how many planeswalkers you're running and what they're strategy is). And if you expect the opponent to just remove it, why bother running Elspeth, Sun's Champion against control? Or Jace, Architect of Thought instead of something like Divination ? (since they'll just remove your planeswalker). You can't live in fear of them removing Jace, Memory Adept because quite often, it'll get through and it's a much faster win than AEtherling if they're running Sphinx's Revelation . Thanks for the responses though, I guess it makes sense sometimes.
PasorofMuppets says... #2
Why would they? Generally Memory Adept goes in against control but a lot of control decks are running some number of Elixer of Immortality which kind of negates the whole plan.
March 19, 2014 2:50 p.m.