Best Control Hosers Right Now
Standard forum
Posted on May 11, 2015, 9:55 p.m. by BoardFire
My opinions are Risen Executioner and Grindclock.
(This is not decks, but specific cards.)
lemmingllama says... #4
Well, it depends on what control decks you are talking about. Abzan Control doesn't really have many weaknesses that just immediately fix the match. Esper Dragons dies if you can resolve enough edict effects like Crackling Doom or Foul-Tongue Invocation.
Still, the proper way to hose control is to play RDW.
May 11, 2015 10:30 p.m.
The ways people are beating control right now are Resilient threats such as Rakshasa Deathdealer, Fleecemane Lion and Whisperwood Elemental. Cards that get value just from entering the battle field like Siege Rhino and Hornet Queen. Or this nice value combo Deathmist Raptor + Den Protector . Also like @Lemmingllama said red aggro such as Monastery Swiftspear and Goblin Rabblemaster are fast enough to beat control before it can stabilize.
May 11, 2015 10:48 p.m.
JakeHarlow says... #6
Unless they have Utter End (most don't), Esper Dragons control dies badly to Keranos, God of Storms.
Temur is good at ramping to it and sneaking it through their countermagic net. Plus, cards like Stubborn Denial help, too.
May 12, 2015 1:54 a.m.
It's just so different depending on what type of deck and what colours your playing that giving specific card answers is just not helpful for anyone. Also different cards are good against different types of control decks. So if you want a discussion on good cards against control you need to provide a context for the community to work from.
May 12, 2015 6:31 a.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #8
Just play Mastery of the Unseen and/or Whip of Erebos and as long as you can get one on board, you should be able to force them to play when they don't want to.
May 12, 2015 11:58 a.m.
HorridBEAST says... #9
Esper control and to a lesser extent Abzan control have a really hard time dealing with planeswalkers that can make tokens like Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Xenagos, the Reveler also Nissa, Worldwaker's ability to turn lands into creatures. At most they have 4 Hero's Downfall so if you can dodge counter spells and get one of these guys to stick then they have very little that can remove them. This especially hurts Esper Control because they win by 1-for-1-ing all of your cards and using their draw power to keep a bigger hand than you. Being forced them to waste their precious removal spells on your free tokens is not how they want to play
May 14, 2015 noon
What you said applies to abzan and U/B but not Esper. If you're on the play then Nissa and Xenagos will get countered, if you're on the draw you will most likely face a turn 5 Ojutai which completely wrecks both these planeswalkers. Nissa might pass 4 damage but next turn you lose her and get a land destroyed, that ain't card advantage anymore. Elspeth is only good on the play by -3ing Ojutai, on the draw she's a turn too late, then there's also the fact that silumgar completely hoses her. If going planeswalkers was a good strategy, Sarkhan Unbroken would be the best bet since he protects himself with the dragons and that deck has access to counterspells too.
I can't stress it enough, trying to go over Esper will result in Esper going on the beatdown plan with Ojutai. You must either go under them, play resilient threats (or have protection/counter backup), or go wide (Examples: Mono-red, heroic, selesnya/bant aggro, abzan aggro, temur with counter spells, jeskai with counter spells, jeskai tokens)
Source: SCG premium articles, and I have been playing the deck since before it was cool (since Shaheen's version).
May 14, 2015 1:45 p.m.
Den Protector and Deathmist Raptor with Thoughtseize in the deck is my personal pick. Mainly because it's great in any matchup. Add in Whip of Erebos in the board and you're golden, since the lifegain really helps versus the dragon beats.
Other cards that are beatings:
Mastery of the Unseen, Keranos, God of Storms and Hammer of Purphoros are all other good options. Control decks are very beatable currently. You've just got to know what you're doing.
May 14, 2015 3:27 p.m.
HorridBEAST says... #12
Your talking about the draw and the play and racing them to get my threats on board as if I need to play planeswalkers the second I have the mana. What about the the cards I'm going to play that aren't planeswalkers? Lets see Ojutai get through my Stormbreath Dragon and I doubt they will ever let Siege Rhino touch the field, let your opponent spend some of his counter and removal spells and when you think its safe try to get your planeswalker out uncontested. This obviously requires a bit of luck and considerably more skill, but it is a way to deal with control
Esper does not have infinite counter spells and most run less than 6 dragons. drawing a Dragonlord Ojutai by turn 5 is only a 65% chance if they are running all 4 copies, also Esper will rarely throw out a turn 5 Dragonlord Ojutai they will almost always wait till they have 7 mana so that they can still protect it. If you do get them to tap out then you play your Elspeth, Sun's Champion and immediately destroy Ojutai, you've just 1-for-1-ed them and if they don't immediately play Hero's Downfall then next turn you will start getting even more value. Silumgar, the Drifting Death can eat my End Hostilities and then I will just make more tokens with Elspeth.
Genesis Hydra is a great way to cheat planeswalkers onto the field because even if they counter your Hydra the effect still goes off, getting X=4 and revealing a Xenagos, the Reveler is fairly easy.
Nissa, Worldwaker's animated lands avoid being removed by Perilous Vault which saw a bit of play after some guy did really well with it a month ago and, while its not as prevalent anymore, if they use a Hero's Downfall to kill Nissa and some other removal spell on your animated land, then you have technically 2-for-2-ed, but your likely getting land flooded in the late game anyway and won't miss that land much. If they have to trade Dragonlord Ojutai for your animated land, then you have hit value city!
I have seen Sarkhan Unbroken do wonders in a Temur Devotion deck that ran Stubborn Denial to help get him on the field, but he is unfavorable for 2 reasons: First his token generation is a minus ability so you cannot continually churn out free creatures. Second he is 3 colors which not everyone is willing to do. Also, in the decks that can run Sarkhan, Xenagos, the Reveler is a better choice because Xenagos is 2 colors, cheaper, and token generation is a 0 ability. Also in these decks. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker turns into an indestructible dragon so he cant be removed with Ultimate Price and then at the end of turn he's back to a planeswalker so he can only be hit by Hero's Downfall and similar spells
For some decks the only option is to go over Esper Dragons. This is the biggest reason why I, and other R/G Dragons players, need answers to Esper decks that don't completely change the deck from midrange to aggro. For us, having Xenagos in the main deck and Nissa in the side aren't perfect, but do help a lot
JA14732 says... #2
Does Eidolon of the Great Revel have any impact in standard? It's a beast in Modern and Legacy.
May 11, 2015 10:21 p.m.