Standard forum
Posted on March 20, 2014, 10:37 p.m. by Spootyone
I'd like to get some opinions and discussion on the above question. The first thing you'll probably ask is "In what deck/archetype?" Good point. Let's leave the answer to that as "a heavy-green deck" for the time being. In other words, I kind of am interested in hearing the arguments for several different decks.
I can't help but feel like Witchstalker has been under the radar and stayed under the radar for a long while now. While it certainly has its limited shortcomings, I think it really shines in the sideboard -- specifically against control, perhaps against MBD.
Then there's Boon Satyr . Flash (especially with bestow) is no laughing matter. But 2 toughness feels so terrible right now with Searing Blood , Kiora's Follower , Ash Zealot , Precinct Captain , Drown in Sorrow , Magma Jet , Courser of Kruphix , etc. being around. Perhaps it's only useful in an aggro deck?
I want to hear some thoughts.
Boon Satyr Is by far better for the main board just to flash in a heavy hitter after declared attackers to blow up that utility dork they swung with like Courser of Kruphix or Prophet of Kruphix because they thought they could get away with it. And for 5 CMC, +4/+2 is really good late game because Trample is a thing in Green Stomp.
Witchstalker Is good in G/U or G/B controly decks so you can reliably have a creature on the field, but he's not really that useful anywhere else.
March 20, 2014 10:52 p.m.
All good points made so far. For me, specifically, I am choosing to run a few in my sideboard of my "primordial soup" deck for the control matchup. No Last Breath , no Detention Sphere , no Azorius Charm etc. I'm pretty sure if I was allowed to run 3 more Mistcutter Hydra I would, but in many ways Witchstalker fills a lot of the same roles -- just earlier -- while also punishing counter spells a bit.
The only thing he is missing is haste, which in many ways Boon Satyr can sort of have. But I'm pretty sure as a hate sideboard card Witchstalker remains my choice. Mainboard...I'm not sure. I honestly really worry about Searing Blood more than the average player. I will even side out its targets Game 2 lol.
March 20, 2014 11:25 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #5
Boon Satyr is definitely the better mainboard card. I try to save him for Bestowing if I can help it (since there's nothing better than watching your opponent struggle with the idea of using Doom Blade on an Elvish Mystic ), so the weakness to burns shouldn't be much of an issue. It's even a great option in matchups where Witchstalker would come in off the board, such as Esper Control or MBD.
Witchstalker gets outshined on the board by Mistcutter Hydra , tho you may have room for both. It's only viable on the main in a Hexproof deck.
March 23, 2014 8:19 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin: That's actually the exact reason I was wondering about people's opinions on them. In my current standard build I have 4x Mistcutter Hydra in the sideboard. Being a ramp deck, I naturally have a bit of trouble against decks that can rely on spot removal or against straight control, so I wanted to figure out if there were more things I could board in in addition to those guys. Witchstalker felt like a natural choice for control-hate, and I can pump him with Simic Charm which is nice.
Being able to get 3 hexproof power of hate onto the board by T2 seems decent lol.
March 23, 2014 8:31 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #7
Boon Satyr was integral to my winning a SCG IQ this weekend. It pressures the opponent like a turn 3 or 4 Stormbreath Dragon in a lot of cases. Top decking it late is still good because of the ability to bestow it at instant speed. Witchstalker is not bad but seems like it gets outclassed on the board fairly easily.
March 24, 2014 12:06 p.m.
I see your arguments for and against. But whats your opinion on bringing him in against control? Witchstalker, I mean.
March 24, 2014 2:37 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #9
Witchstalker can start swinging on turn 3 with a Elvish Mystic to start the game which is a decent amount of pressure but probably not enough to get them flustered. How do you play the game out from here?
You can play around Supreme Verdict as this is most likely their only removal for Witchstalker . In this scenario you hold your other creature threats and glean as much value from the wolf as possible until they cast a low value Verdict, kind of works against the purpose of creature ramp though. It is likely that they will avoid growing the wolf and keep the clock slow using the time to hit Elspeth, Sun's Champion and Sphinx's Revelation mana with a full grip of spot removal. Playing non-creature threats like planeswalkers will help you take advantage of a situation like this by pressuring them on multiple fronts that each require specific answers.
Or you could pay through Supreme Verdict . Start beating with Witchstalker and follow it up with a Mistcutter Hydra . They will be inclined to answer or fold and if they do answer you must be ready to pressure again the next turn. Playing this way requires a high threat density though and I'm not sure 10 or so creatures is enough to get the job done.
For the most part you can ignore the second ability on Witchstalker and view him as a 3cmc 3/3 hexproof creature, nothing to write home about. He's not a great top deck and doesn't pressure very well. Bested by Blood Baron of Vizkopa , Brimaz, King of Oreskos , Archangel of Thune , and Obzedat, Ghost Council . He is immune to most removal but I think in the end pressuring control is a much more successful strategy than playing around it.
March 24, 2014 4 p.m.
AndyReveler says... #10
I really wanted Witchstalker to be great too, but its just to weak. Opponents just don't worry about it like they should. The only time it shines like everyone else says is in a hexproof aura deck. I really want to run it in my Selesnya and give it Unflinching Courage or bestow a Boon Satyr onto it, but it's not that kinda deck, I don't have room for it and its honestly just too slow... :/
March 24, 2014 6:17 p.m.
derKochXXL says... #11
But the hexproof is so good! I won't defend Witchstalker in any deck but Aura/Hexproof, but in that one it really shines.Somebody kills your elf? +1/+1! There is a Sphinx's revelation? +1/+1! They counter your Boon Satyr? +1/+1! You obviously play it for the hexproof but the counters are a viable source of power, since he hates the coulours most players choose to play ( at least before Jund Monsters became a thing).
March 24, 2014 7:43 p.m.
strongwalker says... #12
In a heavily green deck, I expect there are a lot of creatures. That tips the scales towards Boon Satyr pretty severely.
If you need one guy to stick around and do damage, the removal-resistant Witchstalker gets there. But when you have lots of targets for those spells, a high-pressure 4 power creature is better. If Magma Jet kills Boon Satyr , that's one less other guy killed by it!
Also, there is enough Supreme Verdict around to make flash better than hexproof. Also Anger of the Gods
InconspicuousPotato says... #2
Boon Satyr is overall more resilient due to flash/bestow and more versatile and good in more decks due to it's vanillaness. Though it is weak to removal and dies to the simplest burn spells (ie Shock ), and even dies to a 2/x chump blocker. Whereas Witchstalker is much better in certain match-ups due to hexproof and built in Blue/black hate. It's a much better specific sideboard hate card than mainboard material, whereas Boon Satyr is much better mainboard and worse in the sideboard.
March 20, 2014 10:51 p.m.