Boros Reckoner vs. Trample Ruling
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Posted on May 14, 2013, 2:13 a.m. by strateupjee
So I had a debate with some buddies of mine, say I swing a 12/12 Craterhoof Behemoth into a Boros Reckoner , my thoughts would be that the Reckoner could only "reflect" 3 points of damage, since the attribute "trample" states any damage past lethal is instead dealt to the defending player, is this correct?
Unforgivn_II says... #3
Well, yeah. Technically, once lethal damage has been dealt to all blocking creatures, you get to choose how the rest of the damage is assigned between the blocking creatures and the player himself. In most situations, lethal is all you want to assign, but if you were doing some weird multiplayer game and one opponent has the Reckoner and the other has something that's a an annoying 4/4 that they won't let die (Ravager of the Fells Flip maybe?), you could assign 4 damage to the Reckoner so that they can kill the Ravager. That will almost never be the case, but its a legal option...
May 14, 2013 4 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #5
Creatures will die between damage steps. After you assign lethal damage to Boros Reckoner and his ability has resolved then in the second damage phase Boros Reckoner is no longer on the battlefield. Normally this would mean that no more damage is assigned (as your creature will still have been "blocked") but if your creature has trample then it's full power will be assigned.
May 14, 2013 7:12 a.m.
Hey, what about I destructible vs trample? I once ran a Strangleroot Geist with a +1/+1 and Rancor into an indestructible Angelic Overseer . Would the 2 damage roll over due to the trample?
May 14, 2013 7:45 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #7
Trample always allows you to deal x damage to blockers where x is their toughness (the amount needed to inflict lethal) and the rest to the player.
It doesn't matter is their indestructible, prevent combat damage, blah blah blah.
May 14, 2013 8:46 a.m.
thank you, I guess I should have advanced to the 4th round about 3 months ago at FNM darn!
May 14, 2013 10:06 a.m.
I can also be improtant to note that when combined with Deathtouch, you will only have to assign 1 damage to each blocker, no matter their toughness.
With Deathtouch, any non-zero amount of damage is "enough to destroy the creature", and thus 1 damage meets the requirements of trample's "must assign enough damage to each blocking creature to destroy those creatures."
May 14, 2013 11:55 a.m.
so does trample go over deathtouch?
example: Craterhoof Behemoth at 12/12 swings into a Vampire Nighthawk . does defending player take the additional 9 damage from crater, or does the deathtouch trigger on the stack before the trample damage thus negating the overflow?
May 14, 2013 1:05 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #12
No, damage is dealt simultaneously (unless there's first strike or double strike). Against the Nighthawk, you're still taking 9, then the Behemoth dies. Against Master of Cruelties , the Behemoth is dead and you don't take damage because the Master did its lethal damage first.
May 14, 2013 1:18 p.m.
Unforgivn_II says... #13
Sorry about the double post. The answer to khanye's first question is yes. I was referring to his last question when I said no.
May 14, 2013 1:20 p.m.
Just to clarify, khanye. Deathtouch does not use the stack; it just means that any amount of damage is considered lethal.
kriskurse says... #2
Yes. Because 3 would have been enough to kill the Reckoner. now, if it didnt have trample it'd be able to redirect the full 12.
May 14, 2013 2:19 a.m.