Can Temur be better than R/G or Jeskai?
Standard forum
Posted on Feb. 23, 2015, 10:38 a.m. by EssTea
I know this is a thread that has been discussed in the past...
My friend is super hyped up on constructing a Temur deck, he really wants to make it happen. I just can't seem to see why you would splash blue for Stubborn Denial and Savage Knuckleblade. I feel like R/G does the monster thing better, and I think Jeskai does the ''Aggro/spell'' thing better.
What do you guys think? Is it possible to make Temur work? If so, how can it be better than R/G or Jeskai?
JohnnyBaggins says... #3
You get access to Temur Charm, Savage Knuckleblade, Temur Ascendancy, any counters in gegneral, Clever Impersonator and Surrak. There's a bazillion reasons to splash blue. I think the main reason is that you can move to Temur Midrange and Temur Control with blue. Even Temur Aggro and/or Temur Tempo is better with Knuckleblade and Frost Walker. Go Temur Midrange!
In terms of "make it work", it depends. I don't know where you want to go. Pro tour? I don't know if Temur can win the pro tour. Gameday? Yes, you can. I won a gameday with Temur, competing against Jeskai, Abzan and Sidisi Whip and have no doubt I can do a good job on the opcoming PPTQ. (Really don't want to make this an advertisement, but for reference, my deck: The Song of Ice and Fire.)
February 23, 2015 11:01 a.m.
R/G
Better mana base (faster, less painful) -----> Strongest argument
Better ramping (reference to first argument)
Better Aggro (reference to first argument)
Temur
Counter spells -----> strongest argument
Better card draw? Not with the new Shaman of the Great Hunt ...
Savage Knuckleblade
+
Temur Ascendancy
+
Temur Charm
arguments are weak. They don't make the deck stand out and become powerful.
So.... It seems like Temur needs to go late game to be better than R/G or Jeskai... But is it that much better than R/G or Jeskai late game? Counter spells help against decks that run high impact cards (planeswalkers, Wingmate Roc)...
Control? U/B, Abzan, Sultai would do it better, Temur does not have access to strong removal.
Reasons to play Temur look weaker than reasons not to. Playing three colors implies sacrificing some mana efficiency for stronger cards and Temur cards are underpowered compared to other clans...
February 23, 2015 11:35 a.m.
Playing Temur as my main standard deck I can veryify what some of the other people have said.You have a very strong gameplan against control but most of the time all you are trying to do is land a fattie and either keep it alive or stop the opponent from landing theirs. If they get their's first you are on the backfoot.
On the + side, savage knuckleblade is great, it is good to draw in the late game, CMC 3 so gets under distainful stroke, can have haste and can be pumped to a 6/6 which is bigger than pretty much anything else the opponent has to play. Having the ability to bounce is also relevant allowing you to either negate the opponents kill spell or get a 2 for 1.
The deck doesnt deal well with fliers, wide decks or Heroic and you need to make sure you can sideboard against those matches. (there are only so many anger of the gods you can put in im afraid, but they do work well with polukranos and courser and knuckleblade.)
February 23, 2015 11:56 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #6
If we're talking aggro, here's how I see the breakdown:
Gruul Pros:
-less painful mana (both actually play ~6 tapped lands)
-no need for Rattleclaw Mystic
-t2 Goblin Rabblemaster is everyday life
Cons:
-limited answers
-oftentimes has no 4-toughness creatures outside of Stormbreath Dragon, making cheap sweepers hurt
-speaking of low toughness, burn and Bile Blight do work against Gruul
Temur Pros:
-Savage Knuckleblade, which is saying a lot for a card that doesn't even seem to belong in aggro
-Stubborn Denial is ridiculous, and access to counters in general is a big plus
-Temur Charm is very underrated
-Sideboard tech like Surrak Dragonclaw and AEtherspouts
Cons:
-Lots of pain lands and Mana Confluence
-more dorks needed, and for fixing more than ramping
-not an inherent con of the deck, but many players get sucked into the trap of trying to do everything instead of doing something really well
So in summation, they're pretty even and both have made waves at Pro Tour events. Gruul is probably better if you like playing straight aggro, and Temur is probably better for the mid/control player who is getting his aggro on but still needs his unkillable creatures and counterspells to feel secure.
February 23, 2015 3:01 p.m.
JohnnyBaggins says... #7
"mid/control player who is getting his aggro on but still needs his unkillable creatures and counterspells to feel secure." Wow, you just described me in one sentence :D
February 23, 2015 3:05 p.m.
I currently have a strong temur build. Splashing blue is well worth it for Stubborn Denial Savage Knuckleblade & Temur Ascendancy IMO
I use a strategy of landing big 4+ power creatures like Frost Walker Savage Knuckleblade & Fanatic of Xenagos and then countering removal with Stubborn Denial Negate & Monastery Siege (choose dragons). I have plenty of card draw with Temur Ascendancy Shamanic Revelation (with ferocious life) & Shaman of the Great Hunt.
So I am constantly putting threats on the board and making removal of my creatures difficult.
xcn says... #2
Temur Charm and Frost Walker are also not to be underestimated. Sideboard options like Surrak Dragonclaw, Reclamation Sage, Disdainful Stroke, Kiora, the Crashing Wave, and Keranos, God of Storms give you a lot of options for dealing with what ails you, all in one deck.
Definitely, though, you need to focus on bigness, which is why Frost Walker, Knuckleblade, and Heir of the Wilds are all pretty necessary to standing out from R/G and Jeskai.
February 23, 2015 10:49 a.m.