[Community Discussion]: Standard Chat
Standard forum
Posted on Oct. 3, 2015, 11:37 p.m. by Epochalyptik
Just like Modern, Standard now has its own "chat" thread. We're hoping that this thread draws avid Standard players to share their knowledge.
This thread is dedicated entirely to Standard. Feel free to post your thoughts on the meta, ideas for your next decklist, and just chat generally about the format!
Of course, you can always start a new thread if you're interested in discussing one particular aspect of the format; this thread should be used for the quick thoughts and informal questions about the format.
This discussion will be ongoing; you are free to post here as long as you're on topic.
This is NOT a deck help thread. Please do not spam deck help requests.
has gotten WAY too much love from Wizards in the last three expansions, imo.
January 30, 2017 10:32 p.m.
Played Standard tonight for the first time this Season.
It seems to be spilt into two different types of players in my local meta.
Net deckers, but even worse than before - now they aren't even tweaking the decks.
Those who just don't want to play an infinite combo/are tired of playing against the same three decks.
At FNM I'll be playing against a more Casual crowd. A lot of them played Emrakul decks in the past.
I look forward to seeing what they play now.
PLUS I really want to harass those who used to play Emrakul - "Whatcha gonna do now, huh? Huh?"
February 1, 2017 9:29 a.m.
This Sunday, I am going to a nice home-grown tourney that celebrates the pro tour format - 3 rounds of draft plus 4 rounds of standard. I have a decent GRu energy deck from Kaladesh that will be nice to try out against the field.
February 1, 2017 10:02 a.m.
Dalektable says... #5
For the first time in my life as an MTG player, I'm playing a netdeck. Jeskai Saheeli really just fits my play style completely, I would play it even if it wasn't great but it definitely is lol. I'm a control player at heart, and I love me some combo so it's a natural fit. Of course, I'm tweaking my list to my liking but the deck is fairly solved. It's mainly choices of types of removal / ratio of counterspells to play honestly.
February 1, 2017 10:55 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #6
Dalektable- I'm pretty sure most people who have ever played Splinter Twin in Modern are flocking to the Saheeli decks in standard. It's actually a pretty good move for Wizards, since I'm sure many people will flock to play standard to get their combo fix in while boosting sales. I'm not saying you're one of those people, but I personally know of a few who rarely if ever play standard who now are getting that deck put together.
February 1, 2017 11:06 a.m.
Dalektable says... #7
GeminiSpartanX I mean, its fairly accurate for me. I haven't been playing standard for awhile now, but this deck really excites me so here I am. I wasnt a twin player, this deck just is super sweet and my playstyle and excites me. Plus, I've been craving some competitive play again EDH is great and all but i wanna take down a tournament or two again.
February 1, 2017 11:48 a.m.
It's just so dull to get beaten by an infinite combo that the player hasn't home brewed.
You don't mind if it's something new they have cooked up themselves.
Tonight the Saheeli Guardian deck didn't actually do that well. I think too many people have Sided against it, and my deck was Control, which would have wrecked it pretty hard.
No, I was beaten by the even duller Delerium.
February 1, 2017 3:23 p.m.
Hey, just because everyone agrees with me Argeaux, doesn't mean its a net deck. I was working on the Saheeli Twin deck within 30 minutes of it being spoiled lmao.
February 1, 2017 3:49 p.m.
Dalektable says... #10
shrugs I don't mind combo in any format, personally. In EDH I play infinite combos in all my decks, I never minded losing to splinter twin or ad nauseum in modern. Guess it's just never bothered me.
February 1, 2017 4:46 p.m.
I'm not accusing YOU of playing a Net Deck, Zaueski.
I was there when you brewed it and yours wasn't the four colour one that the Pros are playing, and is being trotted out at my LGS.
It's still not THE deck to beat as there are so many answers to it.
Delerium is, imo.
I feel your pain re:brewing something that becomes popular. That's my Control deck in a nutshell.
February 1, 2017 6:25 p.m.
Lol, yeah. My list is still pretty close to the control shells of the combo that keep popping up however.
As for B/G Delirium, it is a difficult matchup, but its definitely not unbeatable. Like I said earlier, Horribly Awry just stops almost all of their creatures except for Green Hulk. And even that one is pretty easy to stop.
February 1, 2017 6:34 p.m.
The problem I have with it is that, especially post-Sideboard, the Creatures keep coming, and coming, and coming.
I don't think I tried Cataclysmic Gearhulk against it, though. Might trim the fat back a bit.
February 1, 2017 6:45 p.m.
Dalektable says... #15
What is the problem with playing a netdeck, honestly? I really and truly do not understand. I'm a brewer at heart, my absolute favorite part of the game is seeing a deck I designed do well. The first time I won FNM at the age of fourteen with a budget white weenies brew was so incredible ya know? But I've never understood people who hate netdecks and tier decks so harshly. Without net decks and those who play them, there would be no meta game to prepare for. If your deck isn't good enough to beat the tier one decks and netdecks in general, then there needs to be some tuning done or maybe it's time to move onto a new deck. You see, I would consider myself a johnny-spike. I love brewing, but I also love winning. If my deck can't win against the tier decks, I won't play it. There is a great video on this subject uploaded recently on Roguedeckbuilder's YouTube channel. He of course is a brewer and has been known to dislike netdecking, but he uploaded a lengthy discussion on why it is good and necessary not only for the game but for brewers to be successful. I think it's a great video, if anyone has an extra forty minutes or so I'd go give it a listen to. Interesting stuff, and good insight into the subject.
February 1, 2017 9:42 p.m.
I don't think that we're going to see LGS metas full of Vehicles.
Just my hunch.
A lot of peopl have no experience in piloting Vehicle decks and I think they might feel nervous playing one.
I also think it's a big investment for a lot of people, seeing that they probably have very few of the necessary cards.
It's not like running a Snek Deck where you only had to buy a few extra cards to make it a copy of the Pro decks.
By the way, if you want to playtest the winning deck of the AER Pro Tour, I've put it up here:
February 6, 2017 8:15 p.m. Edited.
We usually get enough people on Wednesday night at my LGS to play four matches.
Tonight no one showed up for Standard.
Is this happening at other places?
I don't know if it was because they were all waiting for their #1 Mardu Vehicles cards to arrive, or whether people have decided not to play Standard this season after watching the Pro Tour.
February 8, 2017 11:18 a.m.
DevilNight72 says... #18
its not happened for me and there are a lot of people who play with the mardu vehicles deck.
February 8, 2017 11:38 a.m.
The regular amount were at FNM tonight.
It was wall-to-wall Control decks.
Matches were long and grindy.
They've started that thing where, if you play five Standard games, you win a pack of alt art lands.
Seems to be how they are getting people to play Standard, at the moment.
February 24, 2017 7:57 a.m.
Bribing people into a format seems like a bad idea, but hey - free very cool full art lands.
I built GU Aetherflux Reservoir + Aetherworks Marvel deck spicifically in anticipation of these events.
Now just to convince someone to play Standard! (my shop has held 0 standard events since I started going there, aside from Gameday).
February 24, 2017 8:15 a.m.
In the last 3 or so years, FNMs have always been Modern, except one week of Standard every month. After the Standard events failed to fire pretty much every time, we switched to all-modern FNMs. People going to the store have refused to keep up with standard every year or so.
We had a couple of leagues, so I guess that counts, but close to 0 Constructed standard.
February 24, 2017 11 a.m. Edited.
I wonder if they will run Standard at your LGS so people can win the Amonkhet prizes?
My LGS doesn't usually run Sealed, but they might to let people win those prizes.
February 24, 2017 11:06 a.m.
I am personally pushing for more Standard events to get those prizes. Isn't Sealed just "participate in a Prerelease"?
February 25, 2017 4:23 a.m.
There were only six people at our Wednesday night Standard group tonight.
My partner and I were only there to chalk off some notches for those card packs. Without us there would not have been enough players for sanctioned games.
Our FNM has so few players that it has been changed to Modern from Standard.
As soon as we earn our prize packs we won't play much until the next season, as most of the games are against the same couple of decks.
Wizards needs to do something to keep me interested in Standard.
March 8, 2017 9:22 a.m.
Pretty sure someone cheated tonight while playing me.
He usually ALWAYS cuts decks, but didn't tonight. So I didn't cut his.
He was playing Mardu Vehicles.
He had out Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and a couple of Creatures.
I played Yahenni's Expertise then To the Slaughter. He looked as though he was going to argue that his Planeswalker would be safe, but could see that I was getting ready to argue the opposite.
Next turn he played a Creature then Gideon again. I played Yahenni's Expertise, casting Anguished Unmaking off the back of it to Exile the Planeswalker.
Next go he played Gideon AGAIN.
I said to him, "You got a lot of Gideons in hand," to which he replied, "I have four of them in my deck."
Yeah, coz I always end up with three of my four ofs in hand.
Next game I shuffled his deck. Funnily enough I saw not one Gideon all game.
March 8, 2017 12:12 p.m.
Actually correct me if I'm wrong but I believe due to the nature in which Yahenni's Expertise is worded that They would have the opportunity to sacrifice a creature that would have died to expertise to To the Slaughter instead of Gideon.
Relevant ruling is that state-based actions (those which actually send a creature to the graveyard due to receiving lethal damage or having toughness less than zero are not checked until after a spell resolves). Now I may be wrong, and maybe by putting the second spell on the stack the expertise fully resolves and thus SBA are checked. Anybody explain it to me ?
March 8, 2017 12:51 p.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #28
Since the expertise 'casts' the free card, SBA's are checked between the casting of the expertise and the freely-casted card.
March 8, 2017 1:02 p.m.
Oh well, I made a mistake.
Lesson learned.
On Wednesday I played vs Copy Cat, Mardu Vehicles, and Snek Deck.
So bored with Standard right now. To the point where I am seriously considering not playing it any more.
That's a big thing for me, as I've been a dedicated Standard bunny for three years, now.
I feel like Wizards printed three cards that made three decks OP - Felidar Guardian, Heart of Kiran, Winding Constrictor - and if you don't want to play the decks which use them you just can't compete.
Since my favourite part of the format is original deck building, that kind of ruins it for me.
I've always managed to build original decks that can still compete, in the past.
My LGS meta is too strong for that, right now.
March 10, 2017 8:04 a.m.
GeminiSpartanX says... #30
Argeaux- You could try out the BW PW control deck which has pretty good matchups against those 3 decks, but loses G1 against U-based control pretty handily. My abzan build has a great matchup against sneks and copy cat, and can hold it's own against mardu but has the same issues against heavy blue control in game 1 as the BW deck.
March 10, 2017 9:14 a.m.
"my favourite part of the format is original deck building"
If I was going to net deck I would just play Mardu Vehicles, which I have all the cards for.
I actually have a deck Cast a Shadow.
It drew badly the other day, and it also can't win against cheaters.
March 11, 2017 2:55 a.m. Edited.
I don't think there's really a good compromise between focusing on winrate and building creative decks... in the sense that if you're aiming to play a 60% winrate deck (or whatever the current target is for spikes), you compromise on creativity and flavour, if you focus on creativity, you compromise on winrate. Not that you can't have a flavourful, original deck that wins more often than not, but it won't maintain a high winrate against good stuff meta decks. That's what those cards are put in standard for, for grinders and tuners who aren't going to spend weeks brewing a deck. I don't know what your definition of compete is, though.
To me it's an either/or situation, and you have to go all-in on creativity and the brewing process, or all-in on chasing the highest % winrate deck composition. I choose the former, and I get my enjoyment from my deck doing what it does, doing cool things or producing cool matches. If it wins more than half the games I play thats a bonus, not a goal.
I don't really agree though that these 'middle ground' original decks with above 50% winrate don't exist right now, I just feel that in the middle-ground you're compromised two ways.
March 11, 2017 11:12 a.m. Edited.
For example right now my 'B' deck is called 'Under Da Sea' and it's a crab/fish/turtle tribal deck. Is that deck competitive? (well actually...!) (probably not)
Is it worth playing just to see my opponents face go 'what.. the.. hell.' when I name 'crab' with Metallic Mimic? Yes, yes it is.
March 11, 2017 11:23 a.m.
Thing is, I've NEVER had problems building viable decks over the past two years that can compete.
This is the first season that has been the case.
March 12, 2017 4:32 a.m.
But what is your definition of compete/viable? I would think you can still get at least a 50% winrate. It doesn't seem too difficult right now to build rogue decks which win more than they lose. Also you have the benefit of having a better sideboard plan which they won't expect.
My definition of competing with brews is winning 60%+ versus some of the popular decks, and going 40% versus others, overall ending up in the 50-55% camp.
March 12, 2017 8:59 a.m. Edited.
GeminiSpartanX says... #37
Argeaux- that's why I also mentioned my abzan build, which is my own brew that has a positive winrate. It still plays the good cards in standard, (so you're not seeing anything new and different) but I built it myself, originally to focus on the interaction with Sylvan Advocate and creature lands. Unfortunately standard is in a spot where there are only a few viable cards in each color, which limits diversity. I'm not saying standard is good, but I personally feel like as long as you're playing tournament-level cards in any combination you have a chance to win.
March 12, 2017 9:52 p.m.
Dalektable says... #39
There is a lot of passive aggressive animosity in this thread...lol. To perhaps put the conversation back on a good track, what are people's thoughts on today's ban announcement? As I'm writing this, it hasn't yet been announced so I'm all speculation. I think any ban will only hurt the community and trust in the game and will drive people away from standard, plus honestly I don't think anything should be banned in the first place. If anything, I think cards could be unbanned. Travis Woo on his YouTube channel suggested banning marvel and unbanning emrakul, and I don't hate that idea. That would hurt 4C Saheeli but not cripple it, bring back another deck into the format (controlling GB Variants) and remove a strategy that is overall kind of inconsistent and tilting for one side or the other. I'm actually fine with the format and don't advocate for any ban, but I wouldn't hate that. Honestly I'm just really hoping wizards doesn't ban the cat, if they do I'm probably just out of standard again for a long while. I definitely can't afford to build something else since I invested in Jeskai Saheeli which isn't a cheap deck, I am a college student after all.
March 13, 2017 10:03 a.m.
A little late to the ban speculation party, but I don't think there's any number of cards WOTC can ban that "fixes" standard at the competitive level. All they need is some basic foresight (e.g. don't print cards like Emrakul, the Promised End in a format with 0 graveyard hate or next to artifacts that let you cast things for free) and better answers. We have a lot of Standards that show Doom Blade, Tormod's Crypt & Day of Judgment don't break the format. I mean, I think this is the first time since it was first printed that WOTC decided Naturalize is too strong an answer for Standard.
March 13, 2017 5:33 p.m.
F.R.F I want to give you a medal.
You're completely right.
Not enough testing/thinking is happening when new cards are been developed, and there are not enough answers to the OP cards.
How many times have I wished that Tormod's Crypt was back in Standard?
It would also be a brilliant answer to Scrapheap Scrounger and Metalwork Colossus.
March 14, 2017 12:28 a.m.
Another thing that could have helped with the current Standard would have been the aforementioned Day of Judgment or another 4 drop card that gave -4/-4 to all Creatures aka Languish.
The -3/-3 from Yahenni's Expertise doesn't cut it against Winding Constrictor decks.
March 14, 2017 7:53 a.m.
What's with the attitude Argeaux? Completely unnecessary. You wanted to talk about building competitive decks, I merely wanted to know what you felt was competitive. Kind of important.
Absolutely no need to start sassing people who are just having a conversation with you.
March 14, 2017 9:43 a.m.
Calm your farm.
There's been no attitude or sassing whatsoever.
Unless you've read something into my comments that isn't actually there.
I didn't want to talk about building competitive decks at all. It has been assumed that I did.
March 14, 2017 4:37 p.m.
I was playing Cast a Shadow at FNM tonight.
I misplayed in the first game, and lost.
Won the second game, then lost the third in a close finish.
Next match I played against a guy I hate. He beat me Game 1 and then did something really douchey so I conceded, telling him, "Sorry, I'm just not having any fun playing you".
Next two matches I swapped to Speedway Champions. Due to changing decks I conceded each match, so we could then just have some games to enjoy, without the pressure of winning.
Those two matches were so much fun that I'm considering playing out the rest of the AER season that way - concede the match then just have a relaxing game.
March 31, 2017 10:44 a.m.
Just a quick deck brew idea could you make a deck that is focused on winding constricter rampng the counters on the Hour of Devastation Nissa planeswalker deck Nissa to ulting her in a ramp deck fashion I wonder how that would work her ult is quite good and she could get it out way sooner
August 24, 2017 9:53 p.m.
You could use a bunch of Ramp creatures with nissas +2 to untap up to 6 mana a turn if you use oasis ritualist or the one B/G that taps for 2 colorless I really think this Nissa has a lot of potiental
August 24, 2017 9:58 p.m.
Jalverastegui says... #48
Need help with a ruling my friends. If I have a Batterskull equipped on a Germ token and my oponer cast Arrest on the Germ (making him unable to attach/block/activate abilities) can I still activate the ability on Batterskull and return it to my hand (killing the Germ)? Or I can not activate the ability on Batterskull because the Germ is “Arrested”?
April 16, 2020 8:39 p.m.
Jalverastegui - this is the wrong place to ask this question. I will provide a full answer on your wall (I am repeating this post on each of the threads you posted on).
April 16, 2020 8:43 p.m.
Minousmancer says... #50
Well now with Theros BD and Ikoria almost out, what are people brewing?
Currently I have a Necropotence deck that is my current fave but I'm starting to tinker with the Godzilla set heavily.
I brewed a fun Rakdos/Kroxa/Lurrus - sacrifice/dredge deck and a Zenith Flares Cycling Boros one that seem fun to play so far.
What are the best decks against Fires of Invention (Jeskai or otherwise)?
How are you adapting to Companion? Embracing or rejecting?
Dalektable says... #1
I disagree with that, honestly. First off, we're only two weeks into the new format we haven't even had the pro tour yet. Second, I don't think either of the top decks are oppressive really. Both decks are great, obviously, and at the moment they are clearly the best. But last standard season a deck that ended up a top contender, Aetherworks Marvel, wasn't even a thing before the pro tour. There is still room for innovation.
January 30, 2017 3:09 p.m.